Guard Rail vs Wall

[Hyrax4978]

A funny little question came up and i am hoping someone here has some direction or encountered this before. We have a project in which we need to pull a mezzanine stair away from the wall its adjacent to due to a column conflict. Column of the pre-engineered building came in wider than expected.
How far can we pull the stair way from the wall, extend the handrail further from the wall before the gap between the wall and stringer gets to be to large to trigger a guardrail on that side of the wall? One would think if the 4" sphere comes into play that 4" would be the number. But i wonder if there is anyplace in the code or commentary that this gets discussed.

Thank you!

 

[steveray]

Not really addressed, I know we had a lengthy discussion here with Tom (TBZ)..... if it is not a "walking surface"...I would say less than 4"...or 4-3/8"...depending...

 

[bill1952]

Since last discussion of this, I learned one ICC standard, 300 (bleachers and such) allows a 4" gap between end of treads and wall without requiring a guard. The pictures of examples put the hand rail in the middle of the aisle. Gives me some concern but has been that way for quite a while. And no stringers on those aisle stairs.

But the issue is not really addressed directly by IBC imho.

 

[RLGA]

I would go with @bill1952 's response as being a logical application with a standard, although not directly applicable, that gives some credence to the concept. The 4-inch sphere is the most restrictive opening size permitted, and the fact that it is horizontal rather than vertical is really immaterial.

However, when it comes to enforcement, they (meaning the inspectors) will likely point to Section 1015.2 (2018 IBC) which states that a guard is required when a 30-inch drop is "within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally to the edge of the open side." Technically, they would be correct. If that is the case, then reference the exception to ICC 300, Section 408.1.1 as justification for an alternative method (I am sure your situation is a lot less hazardous than that for an assembly use).

 

[steveray]

The "edge protection" is the debate (of needing a requirement)....I do know of one lawsuit where someone caught a foot and took a tumble due to a stair tread "gap" to adjacent construction.....

 

[bill1952]

The "edge protection" is the debate (of needing a requirement)....I do know of one lawsuit where someone caught a foot and took a tumble due to a stair tread "gap" to adjacent construction.....

I agree. A maximum horizontal gap and how that may be larger if there is edge protection like a curb or toe plate. Putting it my list for next cycle. Think that will be the 2027 edition?

 

[steveray]

I agree. A maximum horizontal gap and how that may be larger if there is edge protection like a curb or toe plate. Putting it my list for next cycle. Think that will be the 2027 edition?

Yep...I work with some of the NY folks from region VI, put your change out here and we can discuss or I will give my group an update and see if we can support...Tom would be interested as well I am sure...

 

[tbz]

The basics (K.I.S.S.) to much information and opinions to keep repeating, the link below is a long back and forth on your question that should answer your question.

Space between stair treads and sidewall

Hi all, Looking for some opinions here. I believe the code is silent to this. IRC 2018. Let's say we have an interior stairway with a stone wall next to it. The architect doesn't want a guard rail or handrail on the stone wall side. The stair is "floating" so that it has a gap or 3" or 4"...

www.thebuildingcodeforum.com

 

[ICE]

mtlogcabin posted this in the other thread about the same topic and it is the best answer that I have seen:

"The 4 3/8" is so a toddler cannot get his head through. That just does not work on a set of stairs/walking surface that a toddler can crawl on and get his legs or chest stuck in. Sorry all you get is 1/2 inch opening."

 

[bill1952]

So the "stair walking surface" includes all of the area not between hand rails or guards past the ends of the stair tread.

 

[ICE]

So the "stair walking surface" includes all of the area not between hand rails or guards past the ends of the stair tread.

Does it matter how you get there as long as the gap is so small as to not be a hazard?

 

[bill1952]

Does it matter how you get there as long as the gap is so small as to not be a hazard?

My primary point is that the code is not clear on this. What is the walking surface on stairs and where can it end?
And, at least on folding and telescopic seating, 4" gap is not a hazard by law.

 

[tbz]

We hashed through this in the other thread, I would suggest the moderator link the other thread and close this one.