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Guardrail Installed in Non-Required Area

Jim Albano

Jim Albano

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Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
1
Location
South Florida
Where there is no guardrail required and one is installed between 38" and 40" in height, is there a problem?
 
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If it's not required, it's over and above the code. Being close does help but as an inspector, I would not the "required height" for a "required guard rail" on the report... just to cover your/my AZ
 
In Virginia it should meet the requirement for live load as to not provide a false sense of safety or security.

"The installation of material or equipment, or both, that is neither required nor prohibited shall only be required to comply with the provisions of this code relating to the safe installation of such material or equipment."

The following could be equivalent;

IBC 105.2 Work exempt from permit. Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following: . . .
“[t]he intent of the IBC that even though work may be exempted from a permit, such work done on a building or structure must still comply with the provisions of the code. As indicated in Section 101.2, the scope of the IBC is virtually all-inclusive. This may seem to be a superfluous requirement where a permit is not required. However, this type of provision is necessary to provide that the owner, as well as any design professional or contractor involved, be responsible for the proper and safe construction of all work being done.”
 
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! = ! = !


Jim Albano,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum ! :cool:

Which Codes & Edition are you using ?


! = ! = !
 
I say no problem....If the intent is that it is supposed to function as a guard, then I agree with FV and it should meet some kind of loading. I would recommend that but could not enforce. That would lead to enforcing the <4" rule on fences and every other thing in the world that loosely resembled a guard...Can a window on the 3rd story resist a 200# point load?
 
IMO if its installed required or not it IS installed needs to meet code.

IBC 105.2 Work exempt from permit. Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following: . . .
“[t]he intent of the IBC that even though work may be exempted from a permit, such work done on a building or structure must still comply with the provisions of the code. As indicated in Section 101.2, the scope of the IBC is virtually all-inclusive. This may seem to be a superfluous requirement where a permit is not required. However, this type of provision is necessary to provide that the owner, as well as any design professional or contractor involved, be responsible for the proper and safe construction of all work being done.”
 
my250r11 said:
IMO if its installed required or not it IS installed needs to meet code.

IBC 105.2 Work exempt from permit. Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following: . . .
“[t]he intent of the IBC that even though work may be exempted from a permit, such work done on a building or structure must still comply with the provisions of the code. As indicated in Section 101.2, the scope of the IBC is virtually all-inclusive. This may seem to be a superfluous requirement where a permit is not required. However, this type of provision is necessary to provide that the owner, as well as any design professional or contractor involved, be responsible for the proper and safe construction of all work being done.”
Click to expand...

So, again...If I install a white picket fence around my yard, does it have to meet guard requirements? When does it become decorative and not "structural"?
 
Jim Albano said:
Where there is no guardrail required and one is installed between 38" and 40" in height, is there a problem?
Click to expand...

First off it was called a guardrail-needs to meet code, Fence under 6' exempt- in my city we have an ord. which requires permits for all fence because somebodies white picket fence or block fence keep falling down so here it is a structural, next town over either direction don't care about fences. If some one adds in mesh or extra re-bar it's not required but it still needs to meet code. Not gonna let them get away with clearances or lay it on the ground just cause it wasn't required.
 
Jim Albano said:
Where there is no guardrail required and one is installed between 38" and 40" in height, is there a problem?
Click to expand...
What is the guardrail protecting people from? The code starts with a guard required for a 30" change in elevation.....so what about a 28" change in elevation. No guard is required but most likely one is installed...and it should meet the code for guards. A kid can still get his head stuck....fatboy could still lean on it.
 
First and foremost, it is not exempted per 105, it is not required and I will win that in court all day long....Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, if the intent is for it to serve as a guard, I would give some guidance as to how to do that or at least what the requirements would be. But to beat someone on a 38" nonrequired guard is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and I've seen Congress!
 
SECTION 105 PERMITS

[A] 105.1 Required.
Any owner or authorized agent who intends to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish, or change the occupancy of a building or structure, or to erect, install, enlarge, alter, repair, remove, convert or replace any electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system, the installation of which is regulated by this code, or to cause any such work to be done, shall first make application to the building official and obtain the requiredpermit.

[A] 105.2 Work exempt from permit.
Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following:


2009 Commentary:


Section 105.1 essentially requires a permit for any activity involving work on a building and its systems and other structures. This section lists those activities that are permitted to take place without first obtaining a permit from the building department. Note that in some cases, such as Items 9, 10, 11 and 12, the work is exempt only for certain occupancies. It is further the intent of the code that even though work may be exempted for permit purposes, it must still comply with the code and the owner is responsible for proper and safe construction for all work being done. Work exempted by the codes adopted by reference in Section 101.4 is also included here.
 
BB....you guys are getting hung up on exempted from permit vs. not required by code.... A 200 square foot deck may be exempted, but it should still be built to code for structural/safety reasons. The guardrail that is not required is built to code because there is no requirement.....Another example, strip mall with 4" curb along the front covered walkway, if not protected or at least delineated in some way, I know it is a tripping hazard. Do I have them install guards? Do I have them install handrails because it is a "stair"?...Where would we stop? And I do appreciate the discussion BTW.
 
Whether a permit is required or not is the issue that has been discussed. The issue at hand is if I install something not required by code does it have to meet code.....

"....even though work may be exempted for permit purposes, it must still comply with the code and the owner is responsible for proper and safe construction..."

That is the point being made. If you install it, it must meet the requirements of the code for proper and safe construction ...... thus height, picket spacing, point load, anchorage, etc. would be required to meet code whether or not a permit is required.

The question that was being asked was a yes or no question and where would you find the answer in the code book....


The only question that I have is "what is a guard rail?" since that is not in the code book -

It is either a guard or a handrail - both of which have different requirements in the IBC (Commercial Code)

If this is at a residential location, it may have different requirements.


To put a spin on it, Do you require the contractor that installs HVAC systems for cooling to meet code and/or manufacture's instruction for the install?

What if I have a fire place insert along with a HVAC system, does it have to be installed per code and/or manufacture's instructions?

(hint: Air conditioning for cooling purposes is not required by the code, only the ability to heat air is.... and if I have a central heat installed, I am not required to install a fire place or a fire place insert......)


Now what say ye?
 
I see your point on the "required" analogy....but there is specific code requirements dealing with A/C installations and they are not exempted in 105. The specific requirements on guards are that they are not required <30" drop...If I plant arborvitae along side my 29" high deck because I have a concern about someone walking off it, but I do not want to install a guardrail", would you make my shrubs have to meet guard requirements?
 
GUARD. A building component or a system of building components located at or near the open sides of elevated walking surfaces that minimizes the possibility of a fall from the walking surface to a lower level.
 
now Steve.... You didn't ask for common sense to be used..... Nobody like 42" Latina besides it wouldn't support a 200 lb point load.

However, back to the guard --- if it is in the public area, it better be the correct height with the correct spacing for pickets.... otherwise litigation potential will eat the owner alive if Bobbie Sue or Billie Bob gets his/her head stuck between the pickets....

What about the recent outrage about the three year old kid falling into the gorilla enclosure.....??
 
Gentlemen, am I missing something? I see a lot of positive comments but no response from Jim.
Many don't see the line between code specific requirements and risk management/common sense/best practices.
Save a dime now and pay dollars later doesn't make good "cents".
 
The question was about the height of a non-required guardrail. Section 1013.3 (2012 IBC) regulates the height of required guardrails. "Required guards shall not be less than..." If it is not required, it is not regulated by the IBC. That is, IMHO, the answer to the OP's question.

GPE
 
I primarily do multi-family. We do 30" high decorative rails on first level patios all of the time. Never call it a guardrail it is a decorative rail.
There is nothing in the code that says that decorative items needs to follow all of the rules of guardrails.
I can't find anywhere that says that the <4" max spacing would apply to anything other than a guardrail.
We do not need to protect the world from all spacing < 4" only guardrails.
 
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