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Handrails & Non-conforming landscape staircase

Syz said:
Does anyone know how this ended up? We are seeing a very similar issue in PA. We are under the 2009 IRC version. They are citing 311.7.4.1 and 311.7.4.2 and 312.1 .. Did the above get successfully resolved? If so, how? Thanks!!
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R311.1 Means of egress. All dwellings shall be provided
with a means of egress as provided in this section. The means
of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of
vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the
dwelling to the exterior of the dwelling at the required egress
door without requiring travel through a garage.

Neither the pool or the yard are a "dwelling" no MOE required....
 
Agreed with those above - if the stair is not used as a means of egress from the home it is not required to be provided with handrails. That all being said, there is nothing in the code that states when a stair is voluntarily provided X, Y and Z apply. Therefore, in most instances, a handrail is provided regardless as the stair is designed to meet the means of egress provisions. Once provided it should technically comply with the handrail requirements outlined in the residential code which includes guards, height, etc. Refer to Section 311.7.8 for additional information:

https://up.codes/viewer/general/int_residential_code_2015/chapter/3/building-planning#R311

You certainly have an argument to not comply but it is a bit of a grey area. I would state its more of an art feature than anything else.
 
It ultimately comes down to a risk management issue.
If a trip and fall occurs to what what defensable standard will they be held, or not?
 
Where does the means of egress end? Once you are out the door or once you hit a public way? I see many new accessory dwelling units built in the rear yards of the main residence, and getting people to the street usually takes them on landscape stairs like what the OP posted...non compliant with rise/run and landings. The last two I worked, one AHJ made the whole path all the way to the front yard be demolished and brought to current standards. The other AHJ allowed the egress POT to end once they were out the door.
 
Robert said:
Where does the means of egress end? Once you are out the door or once you hit a public way? I see many new accessory dwelling units built in the rear yards of the main residence, and getting people to the street usually takes them on landscape stairs like what the OP posted...non compliant with rise/run and landings. The last two I worked, one AHJ made the whole path all the way to the front yard be demolished and brought to current standards. The other AHJ allowed the egress POT to end once they were out the door.
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Yet another example of why people don't like us - Idiot bosses that make CEO's do $#it like this.
 
Robert, good point but if the rear unit is a granny flat or an apartment, consideration should be given to its accessibility.
 
'Guard', which includes balusters, NOT required IMO. There is no where to fall to the side, no change in elevation greater than 30". Only 'required' guards have opening limitations, so the balusters are a non-issue.
Where I disagree is that the handrail itself must comply for height, graspability and live load. If it looks like a duck it needs to quack like a duck. People will grab it and apply load to it, it needs to withstand the Code specified minimum load.
The IRC applies to dwellings and their accessory structures; the pool, steps, etc are accessory to the dwelling.
 
It comes down to a best practices to prevent trip and fall claims.
If this property is used as an AirB&B what would the homeowners liability then be?
Would it, could it be then seen as a commercial use? If so, subject to commercial building code requirements?
 
I would respectively disagree that they are regulated. Yes the accessory structures would be covered, but the access to them, landscaping, does not in my opinion.

If that was a slope of grass, and the requested handrail were added to assist in the traversing the grass, would you invoke ramp requirements?

Take away the handrails, and one could describe the OP at a series of terraces.

Again..... JMHO
 
[RB] STRUCTURE. That which is built or constructed.

[RB] ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure that is
accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and that
is located on the same lot.

The steps were 'built or constructed', as was the handrail. Opinions will vary.
 
Seems like this question has come up before, and we always have the same arguments/results. Anybody know if ICC has ever issued an interpretation? I'd check myself, but their website makes me want to punch things and I try not to go there....
 
Robert said:
Where does the means of egress end? Once you are out the door or once you hit a public way? I see many new accessory dwelling units built in the rear yards of the main residence, and getting people to the street usually takes them on landscape stairs like what the OP posted...non compliant with rise/run and landings. The last two I worked, one AHJ made the whole path all the way to the front yard be demolished and brought to current standards. The other AHJ allowed the egress POT to end once they were out the door.
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In our code the POT ends a the landing outside for single family dwelling regardless of how many are on the property. Based on the responses here, I would expect the same from the IRC
 
tmurray said:
In our code the POT ends a the landing outside for single family dwelling regardless of how many are on the property. Based on the responses here, I would expect the same from the IRC
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2015 IRC Second printing (text is not 'new' to 2015)
R311.3.1 Floor elevations at the required egress doors. Landings or finished floors at the required egress door shall be not more than 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) lower than the top of the threshold.
Exception: The landing or floor on the exterior side shall be not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold provided the door does not swing over the landing or floor.
Where exterior landings or floors serving the required egress door are not at grade, they shall be provided with access to grade by means of a ramp in accordance with Section R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section R311.7. (emphasis added)
 
Given no doors on structure and unless considered to be a landing, the provision of stairs or a ramp to the structure would be for convenience.
If provided they must then comply with code minimums.

That being the case, what if the residence is then rented as an AirB&B, would it not then be subject to 11B access requirements as a commercial use?
 
ADAguy said:
Given no doors on structure and unless considered to be a landing, the provision of stairs or a ramp to the structure would be for convenience.
If provided they must then comply with code minimums.

That being the case, what if the residence is then rented as an AirB&B, would it not then be subject to 11B access requirements as a commercial use?
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IMO, that would be jurisdiction-dependent, depending on what their Zoning Code said about commercial vs. residential. It's the only argument that I'd give credit to (and then, only a little) that a single family residence could be construed as a commercial establishment.

And I still disagree with your assertion that "if provided, must comply". Comes down to the definition of "structure" or "accessory structure", neither of which I believe you'd get by any judge I've ever met for a set of landscape stairs. Fatboy's slope of grass analogy on the previous page was absolutely correct.
 
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