Historic Rehab conversion of warehouses

[Scott_R]

Have a series of circa 1917 empty warehouses. Here are the basics:

6-7 stories each (front of building facing street is 6 stories, rear of building facing vacated alley is 7 stories - a walkout basement condition). Brick/block bearing exterior walls, heavy timber interior construction of 8" x 12" or larger girders, 6" x 10" joists or larger, 8" x 8" posts or larger. Solid plank floor with t & g flooring on top. Building is and will stay fully sprinklered.

Developer converting buildings to mixed-use and are being put on Federal and State Historic Registry. Ground floor (street facade entry side) to be office and/or retail. Basement (walkout on alley) to be retail and/or restaurant. And remaining 5 stories above to become residential apartments.

Few separate questions:

1. How to handle the fire separations (mainly horizontal) when certain elements of the building cannot change due to historic rehab requirements?

2. What about ADA accessibility if same issue above (historic) is required?. That would be for entry/public access into the building AND for residential unit requirements on upper floors? Main floor is 4' higher than street.

3. Same issue (historic) for energy codes. Exterior walls will stay exposed brick so envelope requirements will be difficult to achieve.

I know there are a lot if different issues asked above, but didn't want to cross post(?)

Thank you.

 

[rshuey]

Use the IEBC if you have that adopted in your jurisdiction.

1. I am going to assume the building will be sprinkled because of the R and number of stories. Sprinklers take care of most separation issues.

2. ADA will be tricky. Do you have an ADA Advisory Board? In PA, we can go to Harrisburg and ask for ADA waivers. it is a give and take kind of game, but usually works out pretty well.

3. Energy is also tricky. You have to look at the average R value per space. this may require framing out SOME areas to add insulation. This will allow other areas to remain exposed. The average R value is the ticket here.

 

[Coug Dad]

Welcome to the board. Are you a design professional or a building / fire official? You need to get design professionals involved who deal with this type of work. It is not all that uncommon and there are approaches that can be taken.

 

[permitguy]

Generally speaking, the concerns over historic preservation have more to do with the exterior appearance of the buidling than they do with the interior elements you're describing.

 

[steveray]

If you actually do NEED horizontal fire barriers, they are very difficult to install in existing construction....

ADA is not building code, just because the building Dept might allow it, it may not be ADA compliant.....

You may actually get a good U value for the brick if it is thick multi wythe masonry construction....last Town Hall I worked at had a thermal scan done and the walls performed very well.....but again...hiring or talking to the people that really know their stuff is immensely helpful!

Good Luck!

 

[FM William Burns]

I am left speechless and in full agreement with my colleagues. What a cool building though.

 

[Scott_R]

Thanks...in order:

1. Yes, will be sprinklered. I thought they might take care of most separations - was checking to see if I had a problem with potential different uses occuring on lower levels (we are still programming the building).

2. No advisory board - Illinois. Very familiar with Harrisburg process in Pa. Have only used them for fire/life safety approvals...didn't know you could negotiate ADA there though...very odd state if you ask me

3. Good point...if envelope can work without framing out all walls, great. Unfortunately, the units above have all the living rooms (spaces with coolest look of exposed brick) on the outside walls so there will be limited areas to frame out.

 

[Scott_R]

Welcome to the board. Are you a design professional or a building / fire official? You need to get design professionals involved who deal with this type of work. It is not all that uncommon and there are approaches that can be taken.

Thanks for the welcome. Architect and Developer...I am familiar with these issues from a new construction standpoint - but our first project going through historic registry process. Also - we are exploring the feasibility of LEED.

 

[Scott_R]

Generally speaking, the concerns over historic preservation have more to do with the exterior appearance of the building than they do with the interior elements you're describing.

I agree with the exterior elements taking precedent...We may be doing some "trade offs" as far as getting permission to have new openings in side walls and in return keeping certain interior elements to still qualify. I understand that there is a lot of subjectivity in historic registry (part 1,2 and 3) different than building code issues.

 

[Scott_R]

If you actually do NEED horizontal fire barriers, they are very difficult to install in existing construction....ADA is not building code, just because the building Dept might allow it, it may not be ADA compliant.....

You may actually get a good U value for the brick if it is thick multi wythe masonry construction....last Town Hall I worked at had a thermal scan done and the walls performed very well.....but again...hiring or talking to the people that really know their stuff is immensely helpful!

Good Luck!

Thank you!

Looks like horizontal will not be a problem with the fire suppression system...

I am very familiar with ADA being Civil legislation and not building code...been through arbitration when it first came out in 1992...not a fun experience I know this must be a very common issue with rehabs/historic where there is no feasible way to make ADA work throughout building where certain existing conditions are kept. Thanks for the input though. Very good point on the brick wythe multi-layers - we will definitely look into having thermal scan done. Was this done on your town hall building pre and post redo?

 

[Scott_R]

LOL...thanks.

A VERY cool project...will have many more issues/questions come up during the process. We are in due diligence right now and negotiations with sellers.

 

[Scott_R]

Thanks...in order:1. Yes, will be sprinklered. I thought they might take care of most separations - was checking to see if I had a problem with potential different uses occuring on lower levels (we are still programming the building).

2. No advisory board - Illinois. Very familiar with Harrisburg process in Pa. Have only used them for fire/life safety approvals...didn't know you could negotiate ADA there though...very odd state if you ask me

3. Good point...if envelope can work without framing out all walls, great. Unfortunately, the units above have all the living rooms (spaces with coolest look of exposed brick) on the outside walls so there will be limited areas to frame out.

Sorry - this was supposed to be attached to rshuey reply. Learning how this works on the fly

 

[Scott_R]

LOL...thanks. A VERY cool project...will have many more issues/questions come up during the process. We are in due diligence right now and negotiations with sellers.

this goes to William Burns...thanks!

 

[peach]

Sounds like an uber cool project; we just delivered condos in a formerly fire house (mid 700's, if you're interested - no pole, though). The historic elements are basically the facade, so you may need to be creative in the design (protected structural steel beams, etc) to maintain the safety of the final product. Hopefully the building official is open to alternative design (use Chapter 7 of the IBC rather than trying to make UL assemblies always work - they won't).

Good luck

 

[mtlogcabin]

In the back of the 2009 International Building Code is

RESOURCE A

GUIDELINES ON FIRE RATINGS OF ARCHAIC MATERIALS AND ASSEMBLIES

It might be very usefull for this project

 

[Scott_R]

In the back of the 2009 International Building Code isRESOURCE A

GUIDELINES ON FIRE RATINGS OF ARCHAIC MATERIALS AND ASSEMBLIES

It might be very useful for this project

Excellent advice, thanks!

 

[mtlogcabin]

I am sorry it is in the International Existing Building code 2009 edition.