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Home Based Business - Karate studio

Buelligan

Buelligan

Registered User
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
124
Location
Eastern Panhandle WV
Would a karate studio of 5-10 students or less, 5 days a week, have to meet all IBC requirements in the basement. I can find information specific to home day care, adult and childeren, but nothing about any other "home based" business. So my assumption would be that the structure would become a mixed use and the basement would have to be IBC compliant. One example of concern would be the door is a sliding glass, and the homeowner does not want to change it. Zoning has approved the use. Any opinions on the matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
IBC 1008.1.2 allows sliding doors in private garages, offices, factory & storage areas with 10 or less occupants. A karate studio would be a similar use.
 
How about using the residential code for live/work unit. The 2009 IRC refers the live/work units to Section 419 of the 2009 IBC. Which specifies that the egress shall comply with Chapter 10 of the IBC.
 
Thank you for the replies! But let me clarify my question. The sliding door was just an example of some changes that may be required. My actual question is " Would she have to apply for a commercial permit under the IBC or is there something in the IRC that allows this type of 'home based business' without any IBC compliance?" The only 'home based business' I see addresed in the IRC pertains to day care. So again I say she would have to apply, because of the change in use, for a commercial permit and comply with IBC, correct?
 
That's what I was saying. You can have a "home business" under the 2009 IRC but as far as egress it must meet 2009 IBC regulations. The classification would change from a R3 to an R2.

Note: If the area is less than 10% of the structure it would still be classified as an R3. Also there is a maximum square footage for the live/work units. 50% of the residential area or 3000 square feet whichever comes first.

Code sections below!

R101.2 Scope. The provisions of the International Residential Code for One- and Two-family Dwellings shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, removal and demolition of detached one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses not more than three stories above grade plane in height with a separate means of egress and their accessory structures.

Exception: Live/work units complying with the requirements of Section 419 of the International Building Code shall be permitted to be built as one- and two-family dwellings or townhouses. Fire suppression required by Section 419.5 of the International Building Code when constructed under the International Residential Code for One- and Two-family Dwellings shall conform to Section 903.3.1.3 of the International Building Code.

SECTION 419 LIVE/WORK UNITS

2009 IBC 419.1 General. A live/work unit is a dwelling unit or sleeping unit in which a significant portion of the space includes a nonresidential use that is operated by the tenant and shall comply with Sections 419.1 through 419.8.

Exception: Dwelling or sleeping units that include an office that is less than 10 percent of the area of the dwelling unit shall not be classified as a live/work unit.

2009 IBC

419.1.1 Limitations. The following shall apply to all live/work areas:

1. The live/work unit is permitted to be a maximum of 3,000 square feet (279 m2);

2. The nonresidential area is permitted to be a maximum 50 percent of the area of each live/work unit;

3. The nonresidential area function shall be limited to the first or main floor only of the live/work unit; and

4. A maximum of five nonresidential workers or employees are allowed to occupy the nonresidential area at any one time.
 
THANK YOU Mule!! That's exactly what I was looking for!! We just adopted the '09 codes and we have not had the time to see ALL the new changes. I really appreciate it ALOT!
 
Would a karate studio of 5-10 students or less, 5 days a week

If that is the same 5-10 students each day it would be called a day care around here. You may want to check with your health dept. as they have rulling on how many days and hours you are allowed to keep children and not be a licensed day care.
 
You need to check the allowed "home based businesses."

Here the zoning code allows "home occupations." The usual residential code applies. I don't think 5-10 students would be allowed.

You need to read the code to ensure that your "business" is allowed. I expect your residential code would apply.
 
To put this in perspective:

Do you make piano teachers meet the commercial codes?
 
Buelligan said:
THANK YOU Mule!! That's exactly what I was looking for!! We just adopted the '09 codes and we have not had the time to see ALL the new changes. I really appreciate it ALOT!
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You are welcome!
 
Thank-you brudgers!!

the example given is a HOME based business(zoning issue) not a live/work unit.This board has discussed issue before.

In this city we regard this as a SFD with a home occupation. so....IRC not IBC.
 

Here is what our states requires for a home buiness which serves the public.

(f) Business or commercial occupancies which are open to the public and

located in portions of a private residence are required to be accessible even if those

portions used for the business or commercial purposes are also used for residential

purposes. The accessibility requirements extend to and include an accessible route

from the sidewalk, through the doorway, through the hallway and other portions of

the home, such as restrooms, used by clients and customers of the business or

​
commercial occupancy

 
GHRoberts said:
You need to check the allowed "home based businesses." Here the zoning code allows "home occupations." The usual residential code applies. I don't think 5-10 students would be allowed.

You need to read the code to ensure that your "business" is allowed. I expect your residential code would apply.
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Where do you "check" for the "allowed home based busines"?

Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the use.

I feel based on the IRC exception to 101.2 would apply and seems to be the dirsction we are going to take.

Thanks for the input.
 
88twin said:
Thank-you brudgers!!the example given is a HOME based business(zoning issue) not a live/work unit.This board has discussed issue before.

In this city we regard this as a SFD with a home occupation. so....IRC not IBC.
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I agree that brudgers example brings up a good point. But is there a difference between a one on one situation as opposed to a "class" of maybe 10? Also at what point does a home occupation become a "commercial venture"? I would think there has to be a some kind of threshold. The IRC makes no mention of "home based businesses" other than the above exception and day care, that I have found so far.

Why would it not be a live/work unit, just curious?

thanks!
 
The issue for her now, if we use IBC 419, is that the basement is not a first/main floor as required by 419.1.1 #3

Also, thank you guys for the reply, this forum is an excellent resource!
 
Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the use

To bad they did not spell out any criteria to meet!!!!
 
Buelligan said:
Where do you "check" for the "allowed home based busines"?Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the use.

I feel based on the IRC exception to 101.2 would apply and seems to be the dirsction we are going to take.

Thanks for the input.
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My county has a zoning ordinance with a definition of "home occupation." Since your county has an ordinance and allows the usage you want, I suppose you only need to abide by the residential building code.
 
Our county has 2 zoning allowances for this type of activity...

"Home Occupation" and "Cottage Enterprise", with the Cottage Enterprise allowing for a larger, higher traffic buisness.

The commerical portion, or that which is open to the public would need to be accessible.
 
cda said:
Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the useTo bad they did not spell out any criteria to meet!!!!
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No it's a good thing.

The idea of regulating karate lessons at a private residence is pretty much BS.

The only reason it's an issue is that the person said "karate studio" rather than mentioning that they give private lessons.

To put it in perspective, IBC allows you to have five children all day or all night in your house.

Seems like a bigger issue than a few adults for an hour or two.
 
419.1 General. A live/work unit is a dwelling unit or sleeping unit in which a significant portion of the space includes a nonresidential use that is operated by the tenant and shall comply with Sections 419.1 through 419.8.

Bold by me. This would excude brudger's piano lesson lady.

A day care is a special use that is exempted from the nessesity of being treated like a commercial operation and permitted to be a residential use. A Karate studio or karate classes provided in a space that is a significant portion (but no more than half) of the residence would be a live/work unit.

There is some room there for a judgement call, but IMHO anything activity that is a "class" rather than individual instruction is likely to fall under live/work (ie Yoga class).
 
but IMHO anything activity that is a "class" rather than individual instruction is likely to fall under live/work (ie Yoga class).
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So when my wife has 8 to 10 ladies over for a stamp class (making cards) once a month or a weekly bible study class or teaches a group to make a quilt it is a live/work because of the numbers.

If zoning allows it then leave this one alone, don't make it a building issue
 
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