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Hot Tub- distance to an exterior AC unit?

I

inspector444

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
9
Location
Cleveland Ohio
I am looking at a residential Hot tub being installed on a patio. There is an existing AC unit on the patio. Using the the 2017 NEC as code, does the hot tub have to be a minimum distance from the AC unit? I'm not seeing any specific requirement. Can the Hot tub be located within 3 ft. of the AC? The best I am seeing is 680.22 (D) - requirement that other outlets must be a minimum 10 ft. from a pool as an applicable code section.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can share.
 
The code seams silent on this. Maybe at least 5' so no one could touch the AC when in the water? But I would require the AC to be GFCI protected.
680.26(B) requires it to be bonded to the equipotental bonding system, but not if there is no metal on the hot tub.
 
Rick18071 said:
The code seams silent on this. Maybe at least 5' so no one could touch the AC when in the water? But I would require the AC to be GFCI protected.
680.26(B) requires it to be bonded to the equipotental bonding system, but not if there is no metal on the hot tub.
Click to expand...

Hey, please point me in the direction of what code would require GFCI for the AC condenser. I can't find it
 
Part of my dilemma is 680.4 which indicates equipment located on the deck shall be installed per 680 and shall be listed. Does the AC have to be listed for use in the pool area? Is the intent to prohibit any equipment not specifically referenced for pool use from being located in the pool area? ( in my case a hot tub area). As an interpretation of intent requirement, I am looking at the lighting requirements that GFI protection is required for lights located 5 ft. or more from a pool.
 
Here you go, "any receptacles"

*The National Electrical Code (NEC) ART. 680 Pools and Spas, specifies installation of an approved manual disconnect device. It must be adjacent to the hot tub, at least 5 feet away, and within line of sight. The NEC also requires a 120V receptacle within a 10-20 foot distance from the spa.

Receptacles Near Swimming Pools and Outdoor Spas and Hot Tubs
1. Do not locate any receptacles less than (<) 6 feet from the inside edge of all indoor and outdoor swimming pools and all outdoor spas and hot tubs.

You may locate circulation system receptacles at least (≥) 6 feet and less than (<) 10 feet from the inside edge of any indoor or outdoor swimming pool and outdoor spa and hot tub if all of the following apply:
(a) the receptacle serves a pump motor or other load associated with the circulation system, and if
(b) the receptacle is a single locking type, and if
(c) the receptacle is GFCI protected.


2. Locate at least (≥) one 120 volt, 15 amp or 20 amp general purpose receptacle at least (≥) 6 feet and not more than (≤) 20 feet from the inside edge of all indoor and outdoor swimming pools and all outdoor spas and hot tubs. Locate this receptacle not more than (≤) 78 inches above the walking surface serving the swimming pool and outdoor spa and hot tub.
3. Place all receptacles located not more than (≤) 20 feet from the inside edge of all indoor and outdoor swimming pools and all outdoor spas and hot tubs on a GFCI protected circuit.
4. Place all 15 and 20 amp, 120 and 240 volt outlets serving pump motors, whether by receptacle or hard-wired connection, on a GFCI protected circuit.


clip_image002.jpg
 
ADAguy said:
Here you go, "any receptacles"

*The National Electrical Code (NEC) ART. 680 Pools and Spas, specifies installation of an approved manual disconnect device. It must be adjacent to the hot tub, at least 5 feet away, and within line of sight. The NEC also requires a 120V receptacle within a 10-20 foot distance from the spa.

Receptacles Near Swimming Pools and Outdoor Spas and Hot Tubs
1. Do not locate any receptacles less than (<) 6 feet from the inside edge of all indoor and outdoor swimming pools and all outdoor spas and hot tubs.

You may locate circulation system receptacles at least (≥) 6 feet and less than (<) 10 feet from the inside edge of any indoor or outdoor swimming pool and outdoor spa and hot tub if all of the following apply:
(a) the receptacle serves a pump motor or other load associated with the circulation system, and if
(b) the receptacle is a single locking type, and if
(c) the receptacle is GFCI protected.


2. Locate at least (≥) one 120 volt, 15 amp or 20 amp general purpose receptacle at least (≥) 6 feet and not more than (≤) 20 feet from the inside edge of all indoor and outdoor swimming pools and all outdoor spas and hot tubs. Locate this receptacle not more than (≤) 78 inches above the walking surface serving the swimming pool and outdoor spa and hot tub.
3. Place all receptacles located not more than (≤) 20 feet from the inside edge of all indoor and outdoor swimming pools and all outdoor spas and hot tubs on a GFCI protected circuit.
4. Place all 15 and 20 amp, 120 and 240 volt outlets serving pump motors, whether by receptacle or hard-wired connection, on a GFCI protected circuit.


clip_image002.jpg
Click to expand...

ADAguy, not talking about a receptacle. Asking about an air conditioner. If it a condenser unit or a window AC I don't think there would be an outside receptacle.

This is an interesting subject because the code does not seem to address an electrical appliance near a hot tub or a pool except for bonding to metal parts.

Since there is no GFCI requirements for electric pool water heater and no required distance to the pool maybe a AC could be right next to the pool or above it (a window AC) it with no restrictions.
 
The AC ???, Condenser?? Most outside AC equipment is weather rated so don't believe the water is a problem, probably not an issue. Shock hazard would be a concern.
 
inspector444 said:
Part of my dilemma is 680.4 which indicates equipment located on the deck shall be installed per 680 and shall be listed. Does the AC have to be listed for use in the pool area? Is the intent to prohibit any equipment not specifically referenced for pool use from being located in the pool area? ( in my case a hot tub area). As an interpretation of intent requirement, I am looking at the lighting requirements that GFI protection is required for lights located 5 ft. or more from a pool.
Click to expand...

So I am looking at 680.4 and wondering what the intent is since it says:

680.4 Approval of Equipment. All electrical equipment installed
in the water, walls, or decks of pools, fountains, and similar
installations shall comply with the provisions of this article.
Equipment and products shall be listed.

So technically speaking, the condensing unit is ON the deck, not IN the deck. ???
 
Jumping in here for a minor resurrection. Distance for a swimming pool or hot tub to property lines. Old BOCA codes required this to be 6 feet. Is there a distance for private pools to property lines now in ICC codes. Cant find it in the new 2018 Swimming Pool and spa code. THX
 
Yes, it is a zoning requirement that used to actually be in the BOCA codes. Six feet. So I was wondering if everyone who changed to ICC kept the six feet as found in BOCA or came up with their own new distance to property lines.
 
680.13 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more


means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors

shall be provided for all utilization equipment other than

lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and within sight

from its equipment and shall be located at least 1.5 m (5 ft)


horizontally from the inside walls of a pool, spa, fountain, or


hot tub unless separated from the open water by a permanently

installed barrier that provides a 1.5 m (5 ft) reach path or

greater. This horizontal distance shall be measured from the

water's edge along the shortest path required to reach the

disconnect.
 
Isn't a spa similar to a bath tub? both are vessels containing water. Water and juice don't mix. lose your balance, reach out and touch metal that is ungrounded and what happens?
 
ADAguy said:
Isn't a spa similar to a bath tub? both are vessels containing water. Water and juice don't mix. lose your balance, reach out and touch metal that is ungrounded and what happens?
Click to expand...

The code treats a bathtubs different. Pools, Spas, and hot tubs usually have a higher chance of drowning after you get a electrical shock because they are deeper than a tub. Otherwise you would not be able to have a metal window frame, sink, faucet or any receptacles in your small bathroom.

#7 in the IRC:

E4204.2 Bonded parts. The parts of pools, spas, and hot tubs
specified in Items 1 through 7 shall be bonded together using
insulated, covered or bare solid copper conductors not smaller
than 8 AWG or using rigid metal conduit of brass or other
identified corrosion-resistant metal...............

7. All fixed metal parts including, but not limited to,
metal-sheathed cables and raceways, metal piping,
metal awnings, metal fences and metal door and window
frames. [680.26(B)(7)]
Exceptions:
1. Those separated from the pool by a permanent
barrier that prevents contact by a person shall
not be required to be bonded. [680.26(B)(7)
Exception No. 1]
2. Those greater than 5 feet (1524 mm) horizontally
from the inside walls of the pool shall not
be required to be bonded. [680.26(B)(7)
Exception No. 2]
3. Those greater than 12 feet (3658 mm) measured
vertically above the maximum water
level of the pool, or as measured vertically
above any observation stands, towers, or platforms,
or any diving structures, shall not be
required to be bonded. [680.26(B)(7) Exception
No. 3]

When the code use the word pool in the exceptions I think the code also means spas and hot tubs too. Can anyone verity this?
 
endoriisamarnegfosa said:
After talking with an electrician over the phone yesterday, I was told that "any" electrical equipment such as a hot tub/outlet/fixture/ etc. should be at least 10 ft from my service entrance panal (the box below my meter) to technically meet the National Electric Code. They are sending a person over tomorrow for an estimate, but this info came as a suprise.

Now that I think about it, there is a 220V Central Air unit sitting approx 4 feet from it already that, from the way that she's speaking would be in violation too. It wasn't in violation on our closing papers, and the house is only 3 years old???

Anybody familiar?
Click to expand...
The inside wall of a spa/hot tub shall be a minimum 5 feet from any switch. Circuit breakers are switches. A condenser can't be located in the working space that is provided for the service panel. The working space for a service panel is 30 inches wide.
 
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