Hotel - Communications Door (between units) Is 2) 1/3 hour doors good?

[lunatick]

Question.

IBC 2006

Unit Demising Wall is required to be 1 hour rated.

It is a Fire Partition, falling in the "other" category in 715.4.

The opening protective requirement is 3/4 hour.

So the opening will have a communication door setup. one frame, with a door on each side.

How do you spec 3/4 hour this condition?

A. 3/4 for one, 0 forother.

B. 1/3 hour for both, (2/3 hour protective)

C. 3/4 for both.

Part of this comes from 715.4 a) that provides an exception in a 3 hour wall to allow 2) 1 1/2 doors to equal a 3 hour assembly. If good for a Fire Wall, why not a Fire Parition?

 

[AegisFPE]

Your idea with Item B is creative, and seems like it could be part of a reasonable solution.

However, I would submit that the purpose of the 1-hour separation is to protect The Guest (big G) on one side from whatever the other guest (little g) does.

If the "other guest" can open a door and defeat the level of protection intended by code for The Guest, then a strict interpretation by the AHJ could reject anything less than Item C.

 

[Doorman]

As far as a fire labeling agency is concerned, your solution 'A' is the correct solution.

It is allowable for one leaf to be 45 min rated, and the other leaf be a 1-3/8" hollow core door.

The 2 Ea 20 min door combination will accomplish nothing, and simply adds expense.

 

[fireguy]

What is a Unit Demising Wall?

 

[lunatick]

What is a Unit Demising Wall?

I find it easier to say this than

"2. Walls separating sleeping units in occupancies in Group R-1 hotel, R-2 and I-1 occupancies."

 

[cda]

What section is requiring the one hour wall between each guest room??

 

[Francis Vineyard]

AegisFPE post #2 has it; one side does not have control of the other door being shut and self closers are not required; "C" it is.

What section is requiring the one hour wall between each guest room??

Type A construction hotels!

708.3 Fire-resistance rating.

Fire partitions shall have a fire-resistance rating of not less than 1 hour.

Exceptions:

1. Corridor walls as permitted by Table 1017.1.



2. Dwelling and sleeping unit separations in buildings of Type IIB, IIIB and VB construction shall have fire-resistance ratings of not less than ½ hour in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_9_par051.htm')'>Section 903.3.1.1.

Francis

 

[cda]

Thanks

So should the question be what is the open rating required in a 1/2 hour wall???

20 minute??

 

[Builder Bob]

AegisFPE post #2 has it; one side does not have control of the other door being shut and self closers are not required; "C" it is.Type A construction hotels!

708.3 Fire-resistance rating.

Fire partitions shall have a fire-resistance rating of not less than 1 hour.

Exceptions:

1. Corridor walls as permitted by Table 1017.1.



2. Dwelling and sleeping unit separations in buildings of Type IIB, IIIB and VB construction shall have fire-resistance ratings of not less than ½ hour in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_9_par051.htm')'>Section 903.3.1.1.

Francis

Francis has bought out a very important code section - clarification should be made as to the type of sprinkler system before door and/or wall ratings can be discussed. I believe that Section 903.3.1.1 refers to a true NFPA 13 fire sprinkler system and not a NFPA 13 R system.

Until the type of sprinkler system installed is clarified, a correct application of the code cannot be given.

[F] 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems. Where the

provisions of this code require that a building or portion

thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler

system in accordance with this section, sprinklers

shall be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA

13 except as provided in Section.

 

[FM William Burns]

I am inclined to agree with the "C" proposal using your and AFPE's rationale while considering what BB mentions with the full 13 system. This would fly here as a "reasonable" alternative and more need to approach issues as such.