How does a 48” gate fit a pool deck?

[steveray]

I would think the guardrail would likely aid in the climbing of the barrier.....

 

[Dustinmh]

I would think the guardrail would likely aid in the climbing of the barrier.....

FWIW here's an image (not my actual deck) that matches the general style of my railing

 

[tbz]

So, if you have a set of stairs like in the picture above, then you will be required to have a pool barrier on the deck that has 45" minimum vertical separation from the top of the post, to the first horizontal above it to comply.

• Pool barriers need to be a "Minimum" of 48" high, may be required to be higher because of part 2.
• Pool barriers must have a clear vertical (Non-climbable) zone of 45" between horizontals
  • So looking at the picture you posted, from the top of the lower 2x4 that the balusters/pickets start at, there must be 45" to the top of the next horizontal, your top 2x4, minimum.
  • If you don't have a vertical span a minimum of 45", then you keep going up till you create this zone.

That is why the majority of the time, a "Fence" meeting the minimum heights required is installed around the deck area and a gate for entry at ground level, closing off a separation zone.

We did a project in Greenwich CT about 15 years ago, entire 4 acres of property was fenced in with non-compliant fence. The home's back yard property line was the long Island sound (Atlantic Ocean), you walked up from the ocean to the base of a 14ft high stone wall that had stairs going up to another level where the inground pool was, the entire lower wall had a black chain link fence installed along it with a gate 4ft off the stairs.

The pool level had guards installed along the open edge, then another 48" fence was installed across the yard at pool level, and then stopped 6 feet from the home and came across to separate it from the home with gate access. and then repeated again on the next level up because a flight of stairs went up to the driveway level, 16 feet above the pool level.

All to meet the basics of a 48" minimum with 45" clear zone between the horizontals.

Trying to make the guard and gate on the upper level compliant is, well not the simplest nor best look.

 

[tbz]

Example of the guard and handrail restarting the 45" clear zone for a pool barrier.

 

[Saugie53]

Trying to make the guard and gate on the upper level compliant is, well not the simplest nor best look.

I agree it's not the best but based off the code section that was posted a little while ago stating essentially you can't have anything less than 48 inch anywhere within 36 in of the required barrier putting the gate at the bottom of the steps like you said wouldn't work either. The residential code requires residential stair handrails to be between 34 and 38 in most of them are about 36 so if you had a 48-inch gate at the bottom of the stairs you could always go next to the first riser which if the following the ICC code can only be a Max 7 and 3/4 of an inch riser you would have a stair handrail at 43 and 3/4 of an inch. So having the gate at the bottom wouldn't be compliant either

 

[tbz]

I agree it's not the best but based off the code section that was posted a little while ago stating essentially you can't have anything less than 48 inch anywhere within 36 in of the required barrier putting the gate at the bottom of the steps like you said wouldn't work either. The residential code requires residential stair handrails to be between 34 and 38 in most of them are about 36 so if you had a 48-inch gate at the bottom of the stairs you could always go next to the first riser which if the following the ICC code can only be a Max 7 and 3/4 of an inch riser you would have a stair handrail at 43 and 3/4 of an inch. So having the gate at the bottom wouldn't be compliant either

Sure you can, just need to keep it a little bit away from the stair treads, we always suggest putting in a minimum landing prior to the gate., with sections of fence enclosing the stairs to the correct compliance height.

 

[Saugie53]

Sure you can, just need to keep it a little bit away from the stair treads, we always suggest putting in a minimum landing prior to the gate., with sections of fence enclosing the stairs to the correct compliance height.

Right which is exactly why I recommended a few posts up to design the stairs to come up to a landing 1 Riser height lower than the deck level and then put a one-step riser but the gate at that point up to the deck. You can always put a barrier on top of the handrail/guards at the landing to make it compliant. Although that goes back to the original idea that homeowners will always choose aesthetics over safety so they might not like that. I guess no matter how you look at it there's no real perfect way unless you and fence in the entire yard.

 

[Dustinmh]

You can always put a barrier on top of the handrail/guards at the landing to make it compliant.

Quoted above is my current plan. Gate at bottom, a couple feet of barrier on top of railing. I really don’t want to dig/pour more footings to construct an upper landing. Hopefully when I finally talk to my inspector he gives me his blessing.

 

[tbz]

Quoted above is my current plan. Gate at bottom, a couple feet of barrier on top of railing. I really don’t want to dig/pour more footings to construct an upper landing. Hopefully when I finally talk to my inspector he gives me his blessing.

Adding to the top of the horizontal/sloped portion of you existing guard/handrail will not suffice the requirement if you don't have the 45" clear zone. The top of your existing guard/handrail (railing) restarts the 45" clear zone trigger point.

You will need to put the barrier on the outside of the stair flight, blocking any foot holds, till you reach an equal point of the 45" clear zone.

 

[tbz]

Some more pic's for thought

The front yard and sides are fenced in besides the rear of the yard above.

The sides have a 7ft high masonry walls from the face of the home to the jetty edge of the water line.

The wall was deemed to be possibly climbable, even though to my back while taking this picture is the Atlantic Ocean.

Additionally, the entire property along the front and 2 sides to the water line, have 6' high fence, but there are natural rock formations within 3ft of that fence on the neighbor's property that invalidated the fence for barrier compliance.

Thus, the entire base of the wall required a barrier, not just the minimum area at the base of the stairway.

Pool on upper level.

 

[Dustinmh]

Adding to the top of the horizontal/sloped portion of you existing guard/handrail will not suffice the requirement if you don't have the 45" clear zone. The top of your existing guard/handrail (railing) restarts the 45" clear zone trigger point.

You will need to put the barrier on the outside of the stair flight, blocking any foot holds, till you reach an equal point of the 45" clear zone.

So for clear zone, it sounds like I can't sit a 41"H gate on my first riser to get to 48", because the tread nosing is a horizontal. And if I'm building my gate to match the look of the railing, with 2x4s on their ends as top and bottom rails, my gate itself would be 3.5 + 3.5 + 45 = 52 inches high. Sitting that on my first riser, because my rail posts naturally end there, will put me 59" off the ground. This is shaping up to be a pretty hideous project.

Cool pictures of the seaside estate project. I think their budget is a few hundred thousand above mine.

 

[tbz]

Right which is exactly why I recommended a few posts up to design the stairs to come up to a landing 1 Riser height lower than the deck level and then put a one-step riser but the gate at that point up to the deck. You can always put a barrier on top of the handrail/guards at the landing to make it compliant. Although that goes back to the original idea that homeowners will always choose aesthetics over safety so they might not like that. I guess no matter how you look at it there's no real perfect way unless you and fence in the entire yard.

Please explain layout, are you saying install a landing at the top 1 riser down from the new deck, build the 48" barrier/guard on the sides of the landing and outswing the gate over the landing on the upper level?

You still need to extend the landing to a minimum size, which will more than likely be larger than what you could do at the base of the stair flight, and then the barriers on each side will fade along the sides of the stair flight, thus being less of an eye soar than having the same structure sitting up in the air.

Remember that the gate must swing outwards... not on to the deck, so you need a landing.

If we use the picture in post 27 as a base, and you do not want to put the barrier at ground level, then based on the picture I am envisioning the following, and as thus the side along the stairs needs a compliant barrier 48" and the portion along the landing needs a compliant 48" high barrier with an out swinging gate. Doing it with a drop landing is fine, but if the barrier has a picket spacing more then 1.75" your 45" clear zone will start at the deck, and the barrier on that common side will need the bottom horizontal to not to be above the deck line.

 

[tbz]

So for clear zone, it sounds like I can't sit a 41"H gate on my first riser to get to 48", because the tread nosing is a horizontal. And if I'm building my gate to match the look of the railing, with 2x4s on their ends as top and bottom rails, my gate itself would be 3.5 + 3.5 + 45 = 52 inches high. Sitting that on my first riser, because my rail posts naturally end there, will put me 59" off the ground. This is shaping up to be a pretty hideous project.

Correct, everyone focus on the 48" minimum and never looks at the more important requirements of the 45" vertical clear zone minimum.

That is why the simplest way to achieve compliance is to install the gate at the base of the stairs at ground level, a little ways off the stairs and then the barrier (Fence) coming back along the stair flight to a point where the first tread that is above the top horizontal in the barrier is higher.

Not the best look, but also not 5 feet up in the air as a bill board also.

 

[Saugie53]

Please explain layout, are you saying install a landing at the top 1 riser down from the new deck, build the 48" barrier/guard on the sides of the landing and outswing the gate over the landing on the upper level?

Yes that is what I was thinking. In my head I was more picturing a set of stairs going straight on to the pool deck rather than next to it like in the diagram you showed which would allow you to extend the landing out a little further so you would have room to swing the gate away from the pool and still stand on the landing but that would definitely work.

A lot of people seem to confuse the handrail and guard code sections because most pre manufactured deck handrails are installed and act as both a handrail in the guard at the same time oh, but they are two completely different code sections. Going up the stairs you are required to have a handrail on a minimum of one side once your stairway has 4 risers, the handrail is required to be between 34 and 38 inches in height. The guard section however does not have a maximum height the guard is required to be (with the exception of guards used for stairs) it only has a minimum height which is 36 inches. So technically if you came up the stairs to a landing, you could put 48 inch high guards on both sides of that Landing and as long as that landing were at least 45 inches in the direction of travel away from the end of the stair handrails you could then have one step up to the final pool deck level with your gate flush with that step so that nobody has a foothold area to use the step to climb the gate and you would have a compliant barrier.

 

[ADAguy]

Interesting discussion, as usual, :It depends" on individual circumstances.
The code was never intended to be a "one size fits all"

 

[willto]

Just figured I would also mention guards are in no way meant to "keep in/out" a barrier, yes definitely, but a guard is suppose to only be there to prevent someone from falling through and whether it can be climbed or not does not matter when it comes to the codes.

I have been dealing with the very same situation a lot lately. Ever since Covid started it seems the number of people applying for permits to install pools had literally quadrupled based on what we usually receive. Just last week I had to go meet a contractor out at a job site where they are trying to do this exact same situation that you are describing. The contractor had been going back and forth with me over email for a few weeks because the homeowners did not like the idea of how a 48-inch gate would look on their new pool deck they were having built. Even though I had told the contractor when the permit was applied for they would need to install a 48 in self-closing self-latching gate and marked it up on the plans when I reviewed them he kept insisting that it wouldn't look right so he wanted me to come out to meet him so they could" go over their options with me". When I got to the property I realized very quickly that the contractor figured having the homeowners there to explain to me that they don't like how it's going to look and since it's just the two of them living in the house with no kids they should be able to go without having to put the gate on and I would just cave in and day they didn't have to install the gate. So I very calmly explained to the homeowners that prior to putting this deck on they had a barrier compliant above ground pool. They did not need to add onto their deck to access the pool that was just something they decided they wanted to do so I said to them if they did not want to install the gate that would be fine they had the option to install a fence all the way around the property up to the house on each side but then they would also be required to put an audible alarm on every door and each window with a sill height of less than 48 in that opens to within the fenced-in area, of course they didn't like the sound of that either. I told them that on every permit for a pool or for a pool deck that is applied for I let the applicant know what will be required as well as marking it up on the submitted plans, and upload a copy of the barrier requirements section 305 to every permit so the applicant can carefully read that section themselves. If they did not like the fact that they had to install a gate then that was something that should have been addressed when the permit was first received before construction began so that something else could have been designed to meet the code requirements.

Like it was mentioned before a lot of homeowners seem to go for Aesthetics over safety and it's always until something bad happens and then after that it seems to be all about who they can point the finger to.

As for your original question there are several different Gates that are made for this exact case if you do a little research online that have the hinges set a little lower to attach to a 36 inch post and if you really think about it it's not that much of a difference because you will have the gate a few inches off the actual step itself (the code we enforce here in Rhode Island allows a 4 in if there is a hard surface underneath such as asphalt or possibly a deck and a 2-inch space if it is a soft surface such as grass dirt or) so at that point you really only need about a 44-inch gate give or take.

Can you guys explain to me about the 48" barrier my deck has 52" high can I go with the 36" railing

 

[tbz]

First, I see you posted in 2 different threads on this topic, both have the information, this thread has more detailed information to answer your questions.

The 2 numbers are 48" & 45".

The 48" is minimum height from the outside from walking surface.

The 45" is clear non-climbable vertical zone, that resets the measuring point every time you hit a foothold before reaching the 45" clear vertical.

Thus, your 52" height is meaningless if you don't have the 45" clear from foothold to foothold

Look at the picture in post #28 and study it, and relate it to your project.

 

[mark handler]

Note: this does not apply to California

 

[willto]

So I spoke to my inspector he is telling me that the second deck attach to the house I need a 48-inch barrier this code make no sense for me the 48-inch barrier is preventing kid to get tonthe deck so why they count the house as a 0 ground

 

[tbz]

So I spoke to my inspector he is telling me that the second deck attach to the house I need a 48-inch barrier this code make no sense for me the 48-inch barrier is preventing kid to get to the deck so why they count the house as a 0 ground

Questions:

• Can you walk out a door or crawl out a window of your home and walk over to the pool without a compliant pool barrier between you and the pool (Y/N)
  • If you can, are the doors and windows protected with compliant protection per the pool code requirements (Y/N)
• While standing on the street and then proceeding to walk around your property can you reach the pool without being stopped by a compliant pool barrier that is a minimum of 48-inches high and has a compliant 45-inch vertical clear zone with no foot holds per code (Y/N)
• There are no objects like rocks or trees or pool equipment or benches within 3ft of the pool barrier that can be used to climb over the barrier (Y/N)

A deck surface or stair tread edge that provides a foothold within the 48-inch barrier without first meeting the 45-inch clear zone is considered a new starting point for the 45-inch clear zone.

As thus, if your foot hold is located 25-inches off the ground, you now add 45-inches on top which now equals 70-inches in height to obtain the compliant barrier.

If the inspector is telling you, you need a 48-inch high barrier on your deck, those on this forum would have to assume you have a walking surface there that one can access on the outside.

Based on the limited information you are providing, other than the inspector who I will assume does understand, might not, but I will side on caution here for now, what you are not grasping is, it can be as simple as small protrusion on you homes siding that provides a foot hold within the 45-inch clear zone, which now is restarting the 45-inch clear zone, or someone can climb up on a lower deck without a compliant pool barrier stopping them first, thus on the walking surface of the deck and you are now required to have the pool barrier either on the deck or preventing the person from ever getting on the deck.