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How many stories before elevator required?

BayPointArchitect

BayPointArchitect

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
516
Location
Lincoln
I am thinking that a three story building does not require an elevator but a four story office building would require an elevator. I've searched IBC and NFPA but can not seem to find anything that would require an elevator. Once I introduce an elevator, there are several requirements. But nothing to say that I must have an elevator - regardless of height and building area.

Thanks

---------------------------------

AIA, NCARB, ICC, NCOA, CSI

ICC Plans Examiner
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

1007.2.1 is the section but you also need to know the proposed tenants. ADA will kick in on the type of tenants. I think the ICC/ANSI A117.1 also addresses type of tenants.

Basically 1007.2.1 will be a 5-story building if the level of Exit discharge is the 1st floor (ground). The thing to remember its 4 or more stories above or below a level of exit discharge. The level of exit discharge is a separate story.
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

SBerg,

Welcome to the Forum / Code Bulletin Board! :) We haven't had too many responses from

the great state of Wisconsin.

 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

ACCESSIBLE ROUTE. A continuous, unobstructed path that complies with this chapter.

That can be a ramp or an elevator

1104.4 Multilevel buildings and facilities.

At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible level, including mezzanines, in multilevel buildings and facilities.

Exceptions:

1. An accessible route is not required to stories and mezzanines above and below accessible levels that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2). This exception shall not apply to:1.1. Multiple tenant facilities of Group M occupancies containing five or more tenant spaces;

1.2. Levels containing offices of health care providers (Group B or I); or

1.3. Passenger transportation facilities and airports (Group A-3 or B).

2. In Group A, I, R and S occupancies, levels that do not contain accessible elements or other spaces required by Section 1107 or 1108 are not required to be served by an accessible route from an accessible level.

3. In air traffic control towers, an accessible route is not required to serve the cab and the floor immediately below the cab.

4. Where a two-story building or facility has one story with an occupant load of five or fewer persons that does not contain public use space, that story shall not be required to be connected by an accessible route to the story above or below.
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

Our state has accessibility regs that trump ICC. Those regs exempt buildings "under three stories", "unless the building is a shopping center". Why they couldn't just say three or more stories I don't know.
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

jim baird said:
Our state has accessibility regs that trump ICC. Those regs exempt buildings "under three stories", "unless the building is a shopping center". Why they couldn't just say three or more stories I don't know.
Click to expand...
If it's a healthcare provider, ADAAG 1994 requires an elevator as well.
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

After taking into consideration IBC 1007.2.1 and realizing that not all floors are required to be accessible, then I look at IBC 1104.4 to see the long list of exceptions.

Theoretically, I can design a 20 story sprinkled building with my elevator going directly from ground floor to fourth floor and providing access to no other floor.

Floor 20: Group "R2" Penthouse apartment (no elevator)

Floor 19: Group "S1" Mechanical & Storage

Floor 18: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 17: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 16: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 15: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 14: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 13: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 12: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 11: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 10: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 9: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 8: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 7: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 6: Group "R2" Residential apartments

Floor 5: Group "R2" Residential apartments (no elevator)

Floor 4: Group "A2" Restaurant with elevator access

Floor 3: Group "M" Retail with five tenants (no elevator)

Floor 2: Group "M" Retail with five tenants (no elevator)

Floor 1: Group "I2" Health care provider

My tenant living on the 20th floor would need to be very strong and healthy!

---------------------------------

AIA, NCARB, ICC, NCOA, CSI

ICC Plans Examiner
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

Well, the ICC/ANSI A117.1 and Section 1107.6.2.1.1 requires 2% (If more that 20 units total per structure) of the residential units to meet Type A accessibility. That means unless you can get all of the necessary units on the ground floor on an accessible route you will need an elevator.

This creates another issue. Emergency power is required for elevators used for emergency egress.

Section 3003.

Typically structures greater that 3 stories shall have elevators with emergency power.
 
Re: How many stories before elevator required?

At least one elevator w/ standby power is required for buildings with a floor 75 feet above lowest fire equipment access (high rise 403.9). Granted, it is for fire department use, but, the tenants could pay extra rent to use it. :evil: :p
 
Going to revive this thread and try to explain my building and interpretations. 2015 IBC; Four story apartment building, Non-elevator(?), 10 Units per floor (40 Units total), 1, 2, 3 and 4 bedroom units. The first floor will have 1-Type A Unit and 9-Type B Units dispersed among 1, 2, 3 and 4 bedroom units. My interpretation is that NO elevator is required under 1104.4, Ex. 2 and 1107.7.1, since floors 2 thru 4 do not contain any accessible elements. Scenario #2; Increase the building to FIVE stories (an additional 10 Units, 50 Units total), still with no elevator. One might contend an elevator is needed at FIVE stories under 1009.2.1 "where a required accessible floor is four or more stories above or below a level of exit discharge", my contention is 1009.2.1 IS NOT applicable because floors 2 thru 5 are NOT required accessible floors under 1104.4, Ex. 2 and 1107.7.1, am I correct?

Any and all input is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Ken
 
So, you deny "visitablity" to the friends and relatives of tenants and deny rental to seniors with mobility limitations too?
 
ADAguy, I think khsmith55's original question was code-related, and it appears that no one is being denied the opportunity to rent accessible first floor units. I know he welcomed "any and all input", it would be extra-helpful if you could provide a code or ADAS references that form the basis your concerns.
 
Though shalt Not:

§302. PROHIBITION OF DISCRIMINATION BY PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS.

§302(a) General Rule. No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation.

§302(b) Construction.

§302(b)(1) General prohibition.

§302(b)(1)(A) Activities.

§302(b)(1)(A)(i) Denial of participation. It shall be discriminatory to subject an individual or class of individuals on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, to a denial of the opportunity of the individual or class to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of an entity.

§302(b)(1)(A)(ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals.

§302(b)(1)(A)(iii) Separate benefit. It shall be discriminatory to provide an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is different or separate from that provided to other individuals, unless such action is necessary to provide the individual or class of individuals with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation, or other opportunity that is as effective as that provided to others.

§302(b)(1)(A)(iv) Individual or class of individuals. For purposes of clauses §302(b)(1)(A)(i) through §302(b)(1)(A)(iii) of this subparagraph, the term "individual or class of individuals" refers to the clients or customers of the covered public accommodation that enters into the contractual, licensing or other arrangement.

§302(b)(1)(B) Integrated settings. Goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations shall be afforded to an individual with a disability in the most integrated setting appropriate to the needs of the individual.
 
Thou shalt not impose ADA requirements on stuff that does not fit the definition of "PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS".

If you come visiting my apartment in a wheelchair and can not make it past the three steps leading up to my front door, how am I discriminating against those with mobility issues? I might be so bold as to put up a sign next to the curb that reads, "If you are in a wheelchair and have come to visit me, don't bother getting out of your car. This apartment is not accessible. And I don't like people - regardless of their physical abilities or disabilities."

The recent post by KHSMITH55 proposes a five story building has included ten accessible units on the ground floor. So tell me again why we need to make the satellite dish located on the roof wheelchair accessible? By the way, your kitchen wall cabinets are too high for a wheelchair user to reach. Better take those down before you are visited by someone in a wheelchair.

2010 ADA 36.401 (d) (2) Elevator exemption. This section does not require the installation of an elevator in a facility that is less than three stories or has less than 3,000 square feet per story, except with respect to any facility that houses one or more of the following:
... shopping center ... health care provider ... public transportation ... airport

Regardless of whether-or-not there is a public heliport on the rooftop of this five story apartment building, I would say that the requirement of an elevator hinges on the difference between a "PRIVATE RENTALS" or "PUBLIC ACCOMODATIONS" or something that would otherwise fall within ADA / ANSI A117.1 scope.

But I could be wrong. And it is possible to be too zealous with regards to ADA enforcement. I watched a contractor take down kitchen wall cabinets after the inspector ordered them to be taken down during the final inspection of a new apartment. Meanwhile, the soon-to-be tenant and old lady in a wheelchair cried, "Please don't take down the wall cabinets. Those wall cabinets make my kitchen look like a normal kitchen." Kitchen walls without upper cabinets look institutional. But the inspector remained stoic and firm. Don't be that guy.
 
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BPA, you miss the point. Ability to enter into and visit with friends is one thing, ability to use upper cabinets is based on the type of units and is not required for all units.
Are those with disabilities to be/remain so isolated that they cannot be offered the opportunity to share in a friend's view?
 
ADAguy,
Sorry but when you use legalistic phrases and words that include "discriminatory" and "though shalt not..." you sound like those inspectors that got lost in the difference between a thoughtful recommendation to spend $200,000 on an elevator versus a code-related requirement. As code officials, our job is to enforce MINIMUM requirements. During the course of reviewing plans, issuing a building permit, and performing inspections... we have ample opportunity to mention that building a three story apartment building without an elevator is just a dumb idea.

As for the upper wall cabinets that were removed, those were indeed located within a Type A accessible unit. But to be "friendly" and considerate, my point is that the inspector should have listened to the end-user and allowed the upper wall cabinets to remain.
 
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SBerg said:
Well, the ICC/ANSI A117.1 and Section 1107.6.2.1.1 requires 2% (If more that 20 units total per structure) of the residential units to meet Type A accessibility. That means unless you can get all of the necessary units on the ground floor on an accessible route you will need an elevator.
Click to expand...

Don't agree. An elevator should never be required for apartments for the above reason.

1107.7.1 Structures without elevator service. Where no
elevator service is provided in a structure, only the dwelling
units and sleeping units that are located on stories indicated
in Sections 1107.7.1.1 and 1107.7.1.2 are required to
be Type A units and Type B units, respectively. The number
of Type A units shall be determined in accordance with
Section 1107.6.2.2.1.

1107.7.1.1 One story with Type B units required. At
least one story containing dwelling units or sleeping
units intended to be occupied as a residence shall be
provided with an accessible entrance from the exterior
of the structure and all units intended to be occupied as
a residence on that story shall be Type B units.

1107.7.1.2 Additional stories with Type B units. On
all other stories that have a building entrance in proximity
to arrival points intended to serve units on that
story, as indicated in Items 1 and 2, all dwelling units
and sleeping units intended to be occupied as a residence
served by that entrance on that story shall be
Type B units.
1. Where the slopes of the undisturbed site measured
between the planned entrance and all vehicular
or pedestrian arrival points within 50 feet (15
240 mm) of the planned entrance are 10 percent
or less, and
2. Where the slopes of the planned finished grade
measured between the entrance and all vehicular
or pedestrian arrival points within 50 feet (15 240
mm) of the planned entrance are 10 percent or
less.
Where no such arrival points are within 50 feet (15
240 mm) of the entrance, the closest arrival point shall
be used unless that arrival point serves the story
required by Section 1107.7.1.1.
 
A friend just introduced me to this forum, because this is a question I have been asking for a long time.Other professionals think I am being stupid or obstinate...
I know the many things we have to do once we have an elevator in a residential building, but I have not found anywhere in the IBC where it says you MUST have an elevator at all. Having a 20-story building with no elevator would be VERY DUMB (and mean spirited?), but it doesn't seem to be illegal. After all, the law allows us to be stupid when we turn 14 and don't have to wear a bike helmet anymore...
 
1104.4 Multilevel buildings and facilities.
At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible level, including mezzanines, in multilevel buildings and facilities.

Basically an elevator is required to provide an accessible route to every story.
The code provides exceptions for an accessible route. As a designer it is your job to know these exceptions and if they apply to your specific project and if an elevator will be required to meet the accessible route requirements.
 
1104.4 Multistory Buildings and Facilities
At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible story and mezzanine in multilevel buildings and facilities.
Exceptions:
1. An accessible route is not required to stories and mezzanines that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2) and are located above and below accessible levels. This exception shall not apply to:
1.1. Multiple tenant facilities of Group M occupancies containing five or more tenant spaces used for the sales or rental of goods and where at least one such tenant space is located on a floor level above or below the accessible levels;
1.2. Stories or mezzanines containing offices of health care providers (Group B or I);
1.3. Passenger transportation facilities and airports (Group A-3 or B); or
1.4. Government buildings.​
2. Stories or mezzanines that do not contain accessible elements or other spaces as determined by Section 1107 or 1108 are not required to be served by an accessible route from an accessible level.
3. In air traffic control towers, an accessible route is not required to serve the cab and the floor immediately below the cab.
4. Where a two-story building or facility has one story or mezzanine with an occupant load of five or fewer persons that does not contain public use space, that story or mezzanine shall not be required to be connected by an accessible route to the story above or below.​
 
Welcome, Christian!
The IBC life-safety requirement for an elevators is mainly based on building height.
IBC 403.6.1 requires a fire service access elevator when there's an occupied floor more than 120 feet above the level of fire vehicle access.

As others have mentioned, portions of the accessibility codes will also require a path of travel between floors for use by building occupants, and that implies an elevator - - although it is theoretically possible to make a 20 story building with ramp access between each floor.
 
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