jar546
CBO
I really don't think I need to comment on this one but I hope others do:
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How NOT to drain a dishwasher
- Thread starter jar546
- Start date
ADAguy
REGISTERED
"Wrong" in so many ways:
1. How is the shutoff accessible?
2. Where are the pipe hangers?
3. Water (+) juice don't mix.
4. Stapled romex?
5. Choice of materials?
1. How is the shutoff accessible?
2. Where are the pipe hangers?
3. Water (+) juice don't mix.
4. Stapled romex?
5. Choice of materials?
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
I'm sure it's not to manufacturers installation manual
It's always nice to know why the DW drain connection is not correct:
2015 IRC
P2717.2 Sink and dishwasher.
The combined discharge from a dishwasher and a one- or two-compartment sink, with or without a food-waste disposer, shall be served by a trap of not less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) in outside diameter. The dishwasher discharge pipe or tubing shall rise to the underside of the counter and be fastened or otherwise held in that position before connecting to the head of the food-waste disposer or to a wye fitting in the sink tailpiece.
2015 IRC
P2717.2 Sink and dishwasher.
The combined discharge from a dishwasher and a one- or two-compartment sink, with or without a food-waste disposer, shall be served by a trap of not less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) in outside diameter. The dishwasher discharge pipe or tubing shall rise to the underside of the counter and be fastened or otherwise held in that position before connecting to the head of the food-waste disposer or to a wye fitting in the sink tailpiece.
jar546
CBO
Thank you for posting that. This is the information I was hoping to get posted as it provides definitive answers to relevant subjects when people search.
Dishwasher install directions that I have seen also covers this, Samsung, GE and Kenmore all require the DW discharge pipe to be higher than the sink base prior to entering the tailpiece above the TRAP!
We had an issue with a smelly dishwasher and the DW drain line had come loose and dropped below the trap. Fastened to the cabinet back with one of Kennedy's 1-inch conduit clamps!
We had an issue with a smelly dishwasher and the DW drain line had come loose and dropped below the trap. Fastened to the cabinet back with one of Kennedy's 1-inch conduit clamps!
High loop island vent with the dishwasher discharging to the fixture trap.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
manufacturers installation instructions overrides the code section.
I disagree... any company can put a product out to market and have instructions on how to install. That does not mean that it complies with the code or is allowable under the code.
What the code does allow for, is for manufacturers who have their products tested and listed by an approved agency, to follow the listing developed during testing. It is not a complete free for all.
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
I would like to know where the code says that. Not everything is required to be listed and tested.
IPC 301.7 Conflicts. In instances where conflicts occur between
this code and the manufacturer’s installation instructions, the
more restrictive provisions shall apply
303.2 Installation of materials. All materials used shall be
installed in strict accordance with the standards under which
the materials are accepted and approved. In the absence of
such installation procedures, the manufacturer’s instructions
shall be followed. Where the requirements of referenced standards
or manufacturer’s installation instructions do not conform
to minimum provisions of this code, the provisions of
this code shall apply.
IMC SECTION 304
INSTALLATION
304.1 General. Equipment and appliances shall be installed
as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with
the conditions of the listing, the manufacturer’s installation
instructions and this code. Manufacturer’s installation
instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of
inspection.
304.2 Conflicts. Where conflicts between this code and the
conditions of listing or the manufacturer’s installation
instructions occur, the provisions of this code shall apply.
Exception: Where a code provision is less restrictive than
the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance
or the manufacturer’s installation instructions, the conditions
of the listing and the manufacturer’s installation
instructions shall apply.
We do not use the IPC, but the UPC, so I will leave that aside, however similar code sections exist.
For the IMC, the term approved is goverened by IMC Section 105. Approved, as defined by Ch. 2, means acceptable to the BO, whom is responsible to follow Section 105. Is your BO willing to accept something other than a listing? While Section 105 does not specifically require a listing, it does require testing by an approved agency - that testing, would result in a listing report.
Section 105 Approval
For the IMC, the term approved is goverened by IMC Section 105. Approved, as defined by Ch. 2, means acceptable to the BO, whom is responsible to follow Section 105. Is your BO willing to accept something other than a listing? While Section 105 does not specifically require a listing, it does require testing by an approved agency - that testing, would result in a listing report.
Section 105 Approval
105.1 Modifications
Where there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the code official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases upon application of the owner or owner's authorized agent, provided that the code official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical and the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and does not lessen health, life and fire safety requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the mechanical inspection department.
105.2 Alternative Materials, Methods, Equipment and Appliances
The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any such alternative has been approved. An alternative material or method of construction shall be approved where the code official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, not less than the equivalent of that prescribed in this code in quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety. Where the alternative material, design or method of construction is not approved, the code official shall respond in writing, stating the reasons the alternative was not approved.
105.3 Required Testing
Where there is insufficient evidence of compliance with the provisions of this code, or evidence that a material or method does not conform to the requirements of this code, or in order to substantiate claims for alternative materials or methods, the code official shall have the authority to require tests as evidence of compliance to be made at no expense to the jurisdiction.
105.4 Approved Materials and Equipment
Materials, equipment and devices approved by the code official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval.
105.5 Material, Equipment and Appliance Reuse
Materials, equipment, appliances and devices shall not be reused unless such elements have been reconditioned, tested and placed in good and proper working condition and approved.
Where there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the code official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases upon application of the owner or owner's authorized agent, provided that the code official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical and the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and does not lessen health, life and fire safety requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the mechanical inspection department.
105.2 Alternative Materials, Methods, Equipment and Appliances
The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any such alternative has been approved. An alternative material or method of construction shall be approved where the code official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, not less than the equivalent of that prescribed in this code in quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety. Where the alternative material, design or method of construction is not approved, the code official shall respond in writing, stating the reasons the alternative was not approved.
105.2.1 Research Reports
Supporting data, where necessary to assist in the approval of materials or assemblies not specifically provided for in this code, shall consist of valid research reports from approved sources.
Supporting data, where necessary to assist in the approval of materials or assemblies not specifically provided for in this code, shall consist of valid research reports from approved sources.
105.3 Required Testing
Where there is insufficient evidence of compliance with the provisions of this code, or evidence that a material or method does not conform to the requirements of this code, or in order to substantiate claims for alternative materials or methods, the code official shall have the authority to require tests as evidence of compliance to be made at no expense to the jurisdiction.
105.3.1 Test Methods
Test methods shall be as specified in this code or by other recognized test standards. In the absence of recognized and accepted test methods, the code official shall approve the testing procedures.
Test methods shall be as specified in this code or by other recognized test standards. In the absence of recognized and accepted test methods, the code official shall approve the testing procedures.
105.3.2 Testing Agency
Tests shall be performed by an approved agency.
Tests shall be performed by an approved agency.
105.3.3 Test Reports
Reports of tests shall be retained by the code official for the period required for retention of public records.
Reports of tests shall be retained by the code official for the period required for retention of public records.
105.4 Approved Materials and Equipment
Materials, equipment and devices approved by the code official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval.
105.5 Material, Equipment and Appliance Reuse
Materials, equipment, appliances and devices shall not be reused unless such elements have been reconditioned, tested and placed in good and proper working condition and approved.
Oh, and note that IMC 304.1 uses "and" not "or"... meaning that it must comply with the listing, installation instructions, and code.
Section 304.2 spells this out wherein it states that the code shall prevail except where the code is less restrictive.
Section 304.2 spells this out wherein it states that the code shall prevail except where the code is less restrictive.
jar546
CBO
Disagree. The more restrictive applies. In addition, you will not find mfg installation instructions that will allow this type of installation. Show me one.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
No one is suggesting your OP picture would pass any code or manufactures installation instruction
We just got off on another rabbit trail
Who qualifies the "Listing" lab or firm?
jar546
CBO
Yes, but Rick said that the mfg installation instruction take precedence over the code. That was the point of my post.
tmurray
SAWHORSE
Interesting. Here, our code governs over all conflicts.
Oh joy ... now we’re going to beat a dead rabbit, like the discussion about dead-end corridors.
Robert
REGISTERED
Is there any provision for an air gap? Sometimes I see counters without air gaps and wonder if there is an exception.