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How NOT to drain a dishwasher

Discussion in 'Plumbing Codes' started by jar546, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:09 AM.

  1. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    I really don't think I need to comment on this one but I hope others do:
    DWnoairgap.jpg
     
  2. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    "Wrong" in so many ways:
    1. How is the shutoff accessible?
    2. Where are the pipe hangers?
    3. Water (+) juice don't mix.
    4. Stapled romex?
    5. Choice of materials?
     
  3. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    Stapling Romex to the side of a floor joist is permitted however the cable TV guy might be using the same hole as the Romex through the floor?
     
  4. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    When your dishwasher stinks and you get a funky taste off your plate....

    How are these people not sick.
     
    jar546 and jeffc like this.
  5. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    I'm sure it's not to manufacturers installation manual
     
  6. HForester

    HForester Member

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    It's always nice to know why the DW drain connection is not correct:

    2015 IRC
    P2717.2 Sink and dishwasher.
    The combined discharge from a dishwasher and a one- or two-compartment sink, with or without a food-waste disposer, shall be served by a trap of not less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) in outside diameter. The dishwasher discharge pipe or tubing shall rise to the underside of the counter and be fastened or otherwise held in that position before connecting to the head of the food-waste disposer or to a wye fitting in the sink tailpiece.
     
    jar546 likes this.
  7. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Thank you for posting that. This is the information I was hoping to get posted as it provides definitive answers to relevant subjects when people search.
     
    ADAguy likes this.
  8. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    Dishwasher install directions that I have seen also covers this, Samsung, GE and Kenmore all require the DW discharge pipe to be higher than the sink base prior to entering the tailpiece above the TRAP!

    We had an issue with a smelly dishwasher and the DW drain line had come loose and dropped below the trap. Fastened to the cabinet back with one of Kennedy's 1-inch conduit clamps!
     
    jar546 likes this.
  9. HForester

    HForester Member

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    Now the next learning question is what do you do when the DW is in island that doesn't have a sink? (and the OPs photo may be just that situation.
     
  10. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    High loop island vent with the dishwasher discharging to the fixture trap.
     
  11. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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  12. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    MT ... that looks like the type of “dishwasher” the wife and i had when we first got married. A sink.
     
  13. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    manufacturers installation instructions overrides the code section.
     
  14. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    I disagree... any company can put a product out to market and have instructions on how to install. That does not mean that it complies with the code or is allowable under the code.

    What the code does allow for, is for manufacturers who have their products tested and listed by an approved agency, to follow the listing developed during testing. It is not a complete free for all.
     
  15. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    I would like to know where the code says that. Not everything is required to be listed and tested.

    IPC 301.7 Conflicts. In instances where conflicts occur between
    this code and the manufacturer’s installation instructions, the
    more restrictive provisions shall apply

    303.2 Installation of materials. All materials used shall be
    installed in strict accordance with the standards under which
    the materials are accepted and approved. In the absence of
    such installation procedures, the manufacturer’s instructions
    shall be followed. Where the requirements of referenced standards
    or manufacturer’s installation instructions do not conform
    to minimum provisions of this code, the provisions of
    this code shall apply.


    IMC SECTION 304
    INSTALLATION
    304.1 General. Equipment and appliances shall be installed
    as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with
    the conditions of the listing, the manufacturer’s installation
    instructions and this code. Manufacturer’s installation
    instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of
    inspection.
    304.2 Conflicts. Where conflicts between this code and the
    conditions of listing or the manufacturer’s installation
    instructions occur, the provisions of this code shall apply.
    Exception: Where a code provision is less restrictive than
    the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance
    or the manufacturer’s installation instructions, the conditions
    of the listing and the manufacturer’s installation
    instructions shall apply.
     
  16. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    We do not use the IPC, but the UPC, so I will leave that aside, however similar code sections exist.

    For the IMC, the term approved is goverened by IMC Section 105. Approved, as defined by Ch. 2, means acceptable to the BO, whom is responsible to follow Section 105. Is your BO willing to accept something other than a listing? While Section 105 does not specifically require a listing, it does require testing by an approved agency - that testing, would result in a listing report.

    Section 105 Approval

    105.1 Modifications
    Where there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the code official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases upon application of the owner or owner's authorized agent, provided that the code official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical and the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and does not lessen health, life and fire safety requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the mechanical inspection department.

    105.2 Alternative Materials, Methods, Equipment and Appliances
    The provisions of this code are not intended to prevent the installation of any material or to prohibit any method of construction not specifically prescribed by this code, provided that any such alternative has been approved. An alternative material or method of construction shall be approved where the code official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory and complies with the intent of the provisions of this code, and that the material, method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, not less than the equivalent of that prescribed in this code in quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety. Where the alternative material, design or method of construction is not approved, the code official shall respond in writing, stating the reasons the alternative was not approved.

    105.2.1 Research Reports
    Supporting data, where necessary to assist in the approval of materials or assemblies not specifically provided for in this code, shall consist of valid research reports from approved sources. ​

    105.3 Required Testing
    Where there is insufficient evidence of compliance with the provisions of this code, or evidence that a material or method does not conform to the requirements of this code, or in order to substantiate claims for alternative materials or methods, the code official shall have the authority to require tests as evidence of compliance to be made at no expense to the jurisdiction.

    105.3.1 Test Methods
    Test methods shall be as specified in this code or by other recognized test standards. In the absence of recognized and accepted test methods, the code official shall approve the testing procedures. ​

    105.3.2 Testing Agency
    Tests shall be performed by an approved agency.

    105.3.3 Test Reports
    Reports of tests shall be retained by the code official for the period required for retention of public records. ​

    105.4 Approved Materials and Equipment
    Materials, equipment and devices approved by the code official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval.

    105.5 Material, Equipment and Appliance Reuse
    Materials, equipment, appliances and devices shall not be reused unless such elements have been reconditioned, tested and placed in good and proper working condition and approved.​
     
  17. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    Oh, and note that IMC 304.1 uses "and" not "or"... meaning that it must comply with the listing, installation instructions, and code.

    Section 304.2 spells this out wherein it states that the code shall prevail except where the code is less restrictive.
     
  18. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Disagree. The more restrictive applies. In addition, you will not find mfg installation instructions that will allow this type of installation. Show me one.
     
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  19. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    No one is suggesting your OP picture would pass any code or manufactures installation instruction

    We just got off on another rabbit trail

    Who qualifies the "Listing" lab or firm?
     
  20. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Yes, but Rick said that the mfg installation instruction take precedence over the code. That was the point of my post.
     

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