Indoor swimming pool

[cda]

We have a 6000 sq ft rule to require sprinklers

Indoor pool with associated dressing rooms, equipment rooms and a few other rooms will be over 6000 sq ft

Any Nfpa section that would not require sprinklers over just the pool area????

Or other thoughts

 

[globe trekker]

What is the actual size of the pool area & the pool deck

areas?

Section 8.5.2.2.2 of NFPA 13, the 2010 Edition states

that a maximum area of coverage shall not exceed 400

sq. ft. of any sprinkler.

Can the BCO & the FCO agree on a reduced coverage

area for the pool & deck areas?

.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Should the exception for participants sport areas on the level of discharge not apply; it appears the 2012 IBC removed this exception with new langauge that may help:

"[F] 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations.

Automatic sprinklers shall not be required in the following rooms or areas where such rooms or areas are protected with an approved automatic fire detection system in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_9_par149.htm')'>Section 907.2 that will respond to visible or invisible particles of combustion. Sprinklers shall not be omitted from any room merely because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction or contains electrical equipment.

1. Any room where the application of water, or flame and water, constitutes a serious life or fire hazard.

2. Any room or space where sprinklers are considered undesirable because of the nature of the contents, when approved by the fire code official.

3. Generator and transformer rooms separated from the remainder of the building by walls and floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies having a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours.

4. Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible construction with wholly noncombustible contents.

5. Fire service access elevator machine rooms and machinery spaces.

6. Machine rooms and machinery spaces associated with occupant evacuation elevators designed in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_30_par061.htm')'>Section 3008. "

Francis

 

[cda]

I saw the number 4 it is also in the 09, but commentary says that just because a room will not burn, is no reason to omit sprinklers

I kind of agree

 

[cda]

What is the actual size of the pool area & the pool deckareas?

Section 8.5.2.2.2 of NFPA 13, the 2010 Edition states

that a maximum area of coverage shall not exceed 400

sq. ft. of any sprinkler.

Can the BCO & the FCO agree on a reduced coverage

area for the pool & deck areas?

.

Been talking about omitting just over the pool area

 

[brudgers]

Just to back up a minute and apply uncommon sense:

You're going to consider requiring sprinklers for a swimming pool?

Seriously?

 

[cda]

inside a building that is over 6000 sq ft along with other rooms inside? we sprinkle anything over 6000

boss was trying to sprinkle everything else, excpet over the pool, but he likes code to back the decision

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Can you use the 55 ft. ceiling height exception for atriums?

Francis

 

[mtlogcabin]

We have a 6000 sq ft rule to require sprinklersIndoor pool with associated dressing rooms, equipment rooms and a few other rooms will be over 6000 sq ft

Any Nfpa section that would not require sprinklers over just the pool area????

Or other thoughts

It is your local ammendment and you have to live with it. Even if the NFPA had an exception your local ammendment will overide it.

Look at 104.11 or

Maybe exception 4 will work for you

[F] 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations.

Automatic sprinklers shall not be required in the following rooms or areas where such rooms or areas are protected with an approved automatic fire detection system in accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to visible or invisible particles of combustion. Sprinklers shall not be omitted from any room merely because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction or contains electrical equipment.

1. Any room where the application of water, or flame and water, constitutes a serious life or fire hazard.

2. Any room or space where sprinklers are considered undesirable because of the nature of the contents, when approved by the fire code official.

3. Generator and transformer rooms separated from the remainder of the building by walls and floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies having a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours.

4. Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible construction with wholly noncombustible contents.



5. Fire service access elevator machine rooms and machinery spaces

 

[steveray]

I don't know if this is how the unamended code reads, but here is an amendment that might get you (him) there.....See exception 2....

(Amd) 507.2 Sprinklered, one story. The area of a one-story, Group A-4, B, F, M or S building of other than Type V construction shall not be limited when the building is provided with an automatic sprinkler system throughout in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, and is surrounded and adjoined by public ways or yards not less than 60 feet in width.

Exceptions:

1. Buildings and structures of Type I and Type II construction for rack storage facilities which do not have access by the public shall not be limited in height provided that such buildings conform to the requirements of this code and NFPA 13-02.

2. In occupancies in Group A-4, the automatic sprinkler system shall not be required in areas occupied for indoor participant sports such as tennis, skating, swimming and equestrian activities, provided that exit doors directly to the outside are provided for occupants of the participant sports areas and the building is equipped throughout with a fire alarm system with manual fire alarm boxes installed in accordance with Section 907.

 

[cda]

I don't know if this is how the unamended code reads, but here is an amendment that might get you (him) there.....See exception 2....(Amd) 507.2 Sprinklered, one story. The area of a one-story, Group A-4, B, F, M or S building of other than Type V construction shall not be limited when the building is provided with an automatic sprinkler system throughout in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, and is surrounded and adjoined by public ways or yards not less than 60 feet in width.

Exceptions:

1. Buildings and structures of Type I and Type II construction for rack storage facilities which do not have access by the public shall not be limited in height provided that such buildings conform to the requirements of this code and NFPA 13-02.

2. In occupancies in Group A-4, the automatic sprinkler system shall not be required in areas occupied for indoor participant sports such as tennis, skating, swimming and equestrian activities, provided that exit doors directly to the outside are provided for occupants of the participant sports areas and the building is equipped throughout with a fire alarm system with manual fire alarm boxes installed in accordance with Section 907.

Thanks will look at that

 

[Big Mac]

I think Steveray may have found the answer. I was going to provide the same cod einfo, but he beat me to it. Good job!!!!!

 

[Francis Vineyard]

That's the language deleted 2009 903.2.1 for A-3 & A-4; owing to the problem of designated gymnasiums being taken advantage of for other assembly functions.

Thanks for the refresher steveray.

 

[cda]

That's the language deleted 2009 903.2.1 for A-3 & A-4; owing to the problem of designated gymnasiums being taken advantage of for other assembly functions.Thanks for the refresher steveray.

This is in 2009 Ibc

(Amd) 507.2 Sprinklered, one story. The area of a one-story, Group A-4, B, F, M or S building of other than Type V construction shall not be limited when the building is provided with an automatic sprinkler system throughout in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, and is surrounded and adjoined by public ways or yards not less than 60 feet in width.

Exceptions:

1. Buildings and structures of Type I and Type II construction for rack storage facilities which do not have access by the public shall not be limited in height provided that such buildings conform to the requirements of this code and NFPA 13-02.

2. In occupancies in Group A-4, the automatic sprinkler system shall not be required in areas occupied for indoor participant sports such as tennis, skating, swimming and equestrian activities, provided that exit doors directly to the outside are provided for occupants of the participant sports areas and the building is equipped throughout with a fire alarm system with manual fire alarm boxes installed in accordance with Section 907.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

cda alot of this is presumptous not knowing the occupancy classification and code edition. I'm assuming 2009 since the commentary was referenced.

The 2009 deleted the previous exceptions for A-3 & A-4; not sure why except for what is recorded in the code change proposal; see below.

In agreement with commentary for 903.1.1.1; sprinklers are required even if it won't burn unless the extinguishing system will cause more harm than suppression, but does it provide any guidance to use exception #4?

As above playing devil's advocate and to encourage a discussion; since the deletion of 903.2.1.3 & 903.2.1.4 sprinkler exceptions in participant sport areas where it is permitted in unlimited area buildings per 507.3 [(amd) 507.2] for A-4 only; assuming A-3 then 903.1.1.1 or atrium exception if applicable, but if A-4, one story with frontage then 507.3 works.

507.3 Sprinklered, one story. The area of a Group B, F, M or S building no more than one story above grade plane, or a Group A-4 building no more than one story above grade plane of other than Type V construction, shall not be limited when the building is provided with an automatic sprinkler system throughout in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2009_9_par113.htm')'>Section 903.3.1.1 and is surrounded and adjoined by public ways or yards not less than 60 feet (18 288 mm) in width.

Exceptions:

1. Buildings and structures of Types I and II construction for rack storage facilities that do not have access by the public shall not be limited in height, provided that such buildings conform to the requirements of :Next('./icod_ibc_2009_5_par036.htm')'>Sections 507.3, :Next('./icod_ibc_2009_9_par113.htm')'>903.3.1.1 and Chapter 23 of the International Fire Code.

2. The automatic sprinkler system shall not be required in areas occupied for indoor participant sports, such as tennis, skating, swimming and equestrian activities in occupancies in Group A-4, provided that:

2.1. Exit doors directly to the outside are provided for occupants of the participant sports areas; and

2.2. The building is equipped with a fire alarm system with manual fire alarm boxes installed in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2009_9_par203.htm')'>Section 907.



2006 IBC

903.2.1.3 (IBC [F] 903.2.1.3) Group A-3. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-3

occupancies where one of the following conditions exists:

1. The fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2);

2. The fire area has an occupant load of 300 or more; or

3. The fire area is located on a floor other than the level of exit discharge.

DELETE Exception: Areas used exclusively as participant sports areas where the main floor area is located at the

same level as the level of exit discharge of the main entrance and exit.

903.2.1.4 (IBC [F] 903.2.1.4) Group A-4. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-4

occupancies where one of the following conditions exists:

1. The fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2);

2. The fire area has an occupant load of 300 or more; or

3. The fire area is located on a floor other than the level of exit discharge.

DELETE Exception: Areas used exclusively as participant sports areas where the main floor area is located at the

same level as the level of exit discharge of the main entrance and exit.

“Commenter=s Reason: This public comment allows for the facility to be construction without any restrictions on use or the need for the local

fire code official to track each and every event in each and every location where this exception was utilized within the jurisdiction.

The intention of the exception was for gymnasiums and similar areas where the probable occupant load was significantly less than what

would be determined based on a square footage per occupant factor. These facilities have become multi-use and the occupant load is

frequently higher than what was anticipated or expected when the exception was developed, and the fire load can vary based on the used to

far exceed what would be expected for a sporting area.”

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/Documents/2007-08cycle/FAA/IFC-F3-F153.pdf

Francis

 

[cda]

Sorry it is an A-4 and 2009 edition

 

[brudgers]

inside a building that is over 6000 sq ft along with other rooms inside? we sprinkle anything over 6000 boss was trying to sprinkle everything else, excpet over the pool, but he likes code to back the decision

Be that as it may, it still is inconsistent with common sense.

 

[Frank]

Just to back up a minute and apply uncommon sense: You're going to consider requiring sprinklers for a swimming pool?

Seriously?

Have at least 4 in our jurisdition--one is the city's fire training center SCBA training pool--combustible construction.