Input Roundtable for Growing Sawhorse and Supporting Members

[jar546]

I am posting this here to keep this thread out of the public view so I ask that we don't take this outside of this area...please.

I have received a lot of input over the years, much of it we have been able to implement and of course, some of it we have not. At this point we have about 70 "former" Sawhorses that have decided not to renew their membership. I know that I have a nice list of what a Sawhorse membership will get you but I don't believe that it is enough incentive for the majority of the people out there.

I don't want to keep taking benefits away from regular members but at this point I am thinking it is time. Right now there are a few work arounds that people can use for photos and other items that regular members should normally not be able to see.

Keeping the overall access free helps us with Google but at the same time, many people can lurk and find a lot of information without having to spend a penny. I believe that I made the options for Supporter and Sawhorse very reasonable and once again I am at my wits end trying to decide what to do. We are all better as a team than I am alone trying to make decisions, therefore I am looking for your help.

It would be great if we could start a group discussion to explore ideas and why they would work or why they may not. As always, your input is appreciated along with your financial commitment to this forum. Thank you.

 

[fatboy]

I don't have immediate input, but will be thinking more on it.

One thing I had thought of, and I would be happy to give it a try, an individual outreach for those that have lapsed. And at some point, looking to the next month out and advising folks that they are about to be expired. I think a lot of times, they just don't realize it. It would be a simple as coming up with a boilerplate PM, and cut/paste it in. After the first go-round, wouldn't take much to stay on top of it.

Just a thought...

 

[cda]

If there is some how to get the website out to those that might be interested in it.

ICC chapters?/ website links ?

Business cards to hand out with the website??

I guess some of the problem is people may only need to ask a question occasionally, and do have a need for the site that often??

And may not want to contribute that often?

 

[MASSDRIVER]

I think it first has to be recognised that code education is not sexy. So you have to gain the interest of that distilled demographic. That has to come from individuals in the building industry, then from those interested in accurate information, then those that care, pretty much down to building officials, then those that are not lazy or egocentric, then even THOSE that care enough to sign up for a forum.

It is a select group.

I've said it before; I let every inspector I come in contact with know about this site, and usually write it down on the back of my business card along with my handle. I also try to turn on my grimy cohorts to it, but apparently that's like making me sign up a membership to support the Hildebeast Clinton election effort. I'd rather cut my head off with a nailgun.

So I'm not exactly sure how to get more membership. I am, of course, the poster boy ambassador for The Building Code Forum, but that may not be enough. I'm perfectly willing to hold a jacka55 down and beat him with some romex, but I would need some kind of written, notarized authorization for that. And some bail money.

The only thing I can do so far is drill how helpful this is to guys like me. Just today I got stuck on something pretty simple, but thankfully the prima donnas felt enough pity to lean down oh-so-slightly and push me in the right direction. That's worth the price of admission right there.

Brent.

 

[conarb]

[QUOTE='Brent]I think it first has to be recognised that code education is not sexy.

[/QUOTE]How about a free membership in AshleyMadison.com? Can't get much sexier than that.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

How about a free membership in AshleyMadison.com? Can't get much sexier than that.

You sir, are a bad, BAD person. These people here are inspectors and simply cant be enabled like that. It's hard enough just keeping them from getting breast implants on themselves.

Brent.

 

[Msradell]

I don't know how hard it would be to implement but what if people that were not Supporters or Sawhorses could only see the first few posts in a thread instead of the entire thread? I'm not sure what a good number would be, maybe the first page or something like that.

 

[ICE]

Brent has a good grasp of the situation. His hold on sanity might be a little weak but he understands the conundrum we are in. There will never be a large crowd that is willing to pay. It is too bad that so many inspectors aren't interested in improving but that's the truth of it.

I don't know what dollar figures come from members or what Google pays. I do figure that the supporters must be hauling the biggest part of the load. That means that you can try just about anything without sinking the boat. So jump right in there and freeze out the non-paying people. You might end up with a little forum that supports itself.

 

[fatboy]

I don't mind the one or two hits that stop in, that's fine, it's the professional's that pimp the forum for free advice..........and I don't know how you catch them to pay their freight. I for one, do not want a little forum that supports itself. I think the intent of this forum is way beyond that......

 

[cda]

How about for those that do not want to join ,

Put them on retainer , something like ten posts for X dollars??

I do know I left one other site because they wanted money up front

 

[jar546]

Yeah, it's not an easy task. Balancing growth and activity while generating revenue for costs is always a difficult task. I thought that not allowing regular members to see photos or attachments would work and I think to a point it did but we ended up losing a long time member as a result years after it was in place and he let his Sawhorse expire.

I have tried to approach large companies like Simpson and USP along with some others and it is difficult to get them to return phone calls or emails. The Google AdSense banners we use are very inconsistent with generating revenue and every time it starts going up I swear Google figures it out and changes their system so it goes back down. Oh well, this has been an issue for almost 6 years and I realize we are in a real niche market.

Maybe I'll create a private area with sexy photos of male and females that has nothing to do with codes.... LOL just kidding.

 

[mjesse]

How about a limited number of page views as a non-paying member.

Our local newspapers are good (for them) about indicating "You have 5 free story views remaining this month" and "Sorry, you've reached your 5 story monthly limit". After that, you're limited to viewing the front page only.

I have no clue how it's implemented, or if it's possible for a forum, but it has spurred me to "pay to play" so to speak on the Chicago Tribune site.

In sum;

a. You can come and read without commitment, but only the first page of a thread. And no posting!

b. You can become a "member" and read a limited number of threads per month, and/or have a limited number of posts.

c. You can choose to become a "Sawhorse™", and reap the full benefit of the most knowledgeable collection of Ah-wholes on the continent.

 

[north star]

& ~ ~ & ~ ~ &

Jeff my friend, ...you are seeking ways to change human behavior,

and that will not be an easy undertaking........The long time Sawhorses

remember that ICC jerked the rug out from under us, and went to a

"Pay To Play" set-up.........They went thru their evolutions and realized

that there were a lot of visitors & users of their Forum [ back then ],

but the costs to operate, maintain & update that Forum were rising

exponentially, without any revenue streams coming in to support those

costs.

It is a difficult; if not impossible, task to solve.

I have tried marketing this Forum to a few companies here in my area,

but am getting the "Ya, we'll just kick it up to Corporate for their

approval" responses.........In the past, I have communicated this Forum

to a local Building Officials Association in my area, and just gotten the

looks of a mad `possum !...........Like, ...why do we need that stankin' Forum,

...we're `Specters, & Code Offishuls.......Frustrating to say the least ! :banghd

Moving forward to today... I say you do what you have to do to limit the

leeches who come on here without ponying up.......Ain't nothing free !

Yes, this is a very, very limited group of persons who have a sincere

desire to better themselves & their communities.......I suppose it has

always been that way.

This may not be a good suggestion, but what about any type of

governmental agencies funding this Forum ?...........H_ll, they fund

everything else in the Universe.......Ya know, ...for safety, and for the

health & sake of the children..........That seems to work pretty well.

If it is somehow connected to children, then some government

agencies can't throw enough money at it !

HUD, ...FEMA, ...NFPA, ...the National Fire Academy, ...U.L., ...Factory

Mutual, ...American Forest & Paper Association, and on and on and on.

IMO, ...not too many are rushing to a forefront to say, "Yes, I want

to do it by the Code"..........Doing "It" by the Code(s) is expensive,

...and that is not the "Name of the Game" !

& ~ ~ & ~ ~ &

 

[ICE]

c. You can choose to become a "Sawhorse™", and reap the full benefit of the most knowledgeable collection of Ah-wholes on the continent.

So you think that Brent is pretty smart.

You have some good ideas. The professionals that come here and get an answer are usually asking about a plan check issue. Every one of them is making a decent living. I suspect that this forum pulls their :buttout of a fire for free. It shouldn't be that way. Perhaps we could just tell them to join for the answer.

Another thing about this place is the free education. A new inspector can learn so much just by trolling that it makes sense to ask that inspector to pay for the privilege. This isn't some blowhard's gabfest. What you get here is reliable information from some of the top people in the field. I know that I am humbled often enough that I will hang in there as long as this forum lasts.

 

[JCraver]

Since we're just throwing out ideas... I think it's going to have to be completely free to read/use/etc., if the goal is to grow.

The reason I paid to be a Sawhorse, and the reason I'll continue to pay if that's the way it goes, is because I'm fairly new to this side of the desk and I'm a one man show - there's no one here to ask. This is the only place on the entire internet that I can go to get answers to the kinds of questions I have, and so for ME, $60 every couple years is well worth it. It's worth more than that really, to ME.

The trouble with using me as an example is that the majority of guys who have our jobs are not new, and half of them think they know everything there is to know already. Our local ICC chapter, 70-some jurisdictions I think, usually has 10 ~15 jurisdictions show up for meetings and/or training (which is usually free), and it's the same guys/gals every time. Those few who take a bit of pride in their job, and want to be better at it (AND, work for decent admins and are actually allowed out of the office for things like training). Those guys, when I mention that there is a forum here for answering questions that come up in between meetings, quit listening when I tell them that it costs money. They know their jurisdictions won't pay for it, and they're not going to spend their own money on it, even if it is beneficial. People are cheap, and the world's expensive, and I don't think you'll ever grow the forum by asking members to pay for it. For a long-timer, or even a guy who's been doing it 5 - 10 years, in a Podunk town in the middle of BFE, the value just doesn't meet the cost.

Sell some ads, get some sponsors, hell, sell the whole forum to the outfit that owns Contractor Talk so they can turn it into CodeTalk*, or something. But if the goal is to get this thing to grow, and to have your regular every day building inspector show up and participate, charging for it won't work. There's not enough guys out there who appreciate the value of it.

* I should copyright that...

 

[ICE]

Maybe I'll create a private area with sexy photos of males that has nothing to do with codes....

Oh my gosh! I hope that it's so private that I can't get in.

 

[jwilly3879]

It's a tough job. People are so used to getting things for free they just don't want to pay.

I check out new posts everyday and becoming a Sawhorse was just to support the forum.

I have also given the Forum address to a lot of contractors and other inspectors but they just don't seem interested. They already know all the answers or are learning by correction.

I belong to another forum (Forestry Forum) that has similar issues.

 

[north star]

+ = + = + =



A QUESTION TO ALL:

If you are a Sawhorse, ...are you O.K. with paying for those that

come back repeatedly, for free [ i.e. - they're benefitting off

of yours & my dime ] ?

Thanks for any input !

+ = + = + =

 

[fatboy]

Like I said, onesy-twosy, I am OK with, but continuous use, not.

 

[cda]

+ = + = + =

A QUESTION TO ALL:

If you are a Sawhorse, ...are you O.K. with paying for those that

come back repeatedly, for free [ i.e. - they're benefitting off

of yours & my dime ] ?

Thanks for any input !

+ = + = + =

Possibly to keep the site alive.

No other online help as good as this site

 

[cda]

I suggested a "tip" link where people can donate to the site,

Say the person that may only have one question, but might want to chip in some coins

 

[Ronald Bets]

Maybe posted before, allow free posting and a limited review to replies- say the first three or four. Any views past the allowed amount would require making a choice of payment for : 1.)24 hour view or 2.)month or 3.)year.

 

[zigmark]

I know for me this site was something I used exclusively at work for a long time sort of under the radar. I was never certain that being on a "forum" was acceptable with my supervisor or our internet policy at work. In the last few years I have used the site to validate several positions we have debated in office. After sharing several of the great discussions the community has provided I was given permission to subscribe. Of course I could have done so outside of work at any time but never felt I would use the service when away from my desk. I had received several snarky comments over time about posting and not being a member and honestly that was a turn off and deterrent to me making an effort to join sooner. Don't get me wrong, this site is a valuable tool with many great contributors. I just think that you will gain more support by allowing people to use the general service openly and allowing nonmembers to see that the sawhorse areas exist but not granting them access. It could be the curiosity of seeing a relevant post and the number of responses but not the actual responses from members that may drive more to join.

There's my two cents,

ZIG

 

[Darren Emery]

This is one of the best training tools (especially for a new inspector) you'll ever find. AHJ's should pony up, and encourage their staff to spend some time here learning. Perhaps another subscription level for government entities, to make it a bit easier for inspectors to take to their higher ups. Call it an affiliate membership, associate membership, or "training services" membership, so it looks good on the books!