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Inspection of Shower/Tub

J

jetlag1946

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In the past plumbers always set the tub and connected it before the rough plumbing inspection . Now I am total confused on that . The inspector wants to do the rough plumbing inspection before he okays for insulation to be installed . When he inspects the insulation he does not want the tub/shower in place because he wants to be sure the wall behind the combo is insulated and also has an air blocker on the wall behind the combo . How can he inspect the insulation with the air block over it ? Does he consider the rough in plumbing complete with the pipes caped and not connected to the tub ? Someone please explain the procedure to me. I am getting ready for a rough inspection . As you know the tub must be set before the dry wall is done .
 
Good question, the tub is always set before insulation inspection, I've never had an inspector ask to see insulation or a so-called 'air-blocker' behind a tub.
 
A newer energy czars requirement, they decided that in order for insulation to be effective, it must be contained on all six sides by a solid surface. And yes, along with the energy crap, came the need for insulation inspections.
 
Wind washing can be an issue for air permeable insulation exposed to the exterior. This is where the wind will push the warmer air out of the insulation and replace it with cold air, which reduces the effectiveness of the insulation. Not really an issue inside though. Sounds like a policy from a department that don't understand what they are checking and why.

Most of the insulation inspection can be done at a framing stage to ensure proper continuity of insulation, etc, as long as the department is proactive enough. This makes the actual insulation inspection just a walkthough.
 
From Table R402.4.1.1

TABLE R402.4.1.1
AIR BARRIER AND INSULATION INSTALLATION

Exterior thermal envelope insulation for framed
walls shall be installed in substantial contact and
continuous alignment with the air barrier.

AIR BARRIER. Material(s) assembled and joined together to
provide a barrier to air leakage through the building envelope.
An air barrier may be a single material or a combination of
materials.
 
Nobody is answering his question, it's a fact that the installed tub is part of the rough plumbing inspection, that has to come before the frame inspection, the insulation inspection can't be done until after the frame inspection.

Looks to me, as absurd as it is, the only way to comply is to remove the tub after it is inspected, install the insulation and air-barrier and after it is inspected reinstall the tub prior to sheetrock and it's nailing inspection. It's common here in the West and South Bay to have a shower lath inspection, but not in the East Bay, when I first saw it on an inspection card I actually called the inspector asking what he was looking for, he wasn't looking for lath (as defined in the codes) but waterproofing behind the lath, that's fine since we do that with shower pan inspection under the plumbing code. From what I've heard that inspection has gone away in the last code?
 
You need to contact the inspector, this scenario is viewed different by every inspector.

We are flexible, the majority of contractors and homeowners in our area place the exterior cavity insulation, the air barrier then the tub walls. Now if there's supply piping on the exterior wall we do not allow coverage until we confirm piping is has split foam insulation wrapped around the supply pipes and the piping meets code as well as water/airtight.

We can see the air barrier from one of the sidewalls, the insulation R Value can be viewed from the upper portion oif the cavity not covered by the tub/shower walls.
 
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The tub is not prescribed to be tested during the rough-in inspection, but is usually done as a convenience to the plumber IMO.

PLUMBING FIXTURE. A receptacle or device that is connected to a water supply system or discharges to a drainage system or both. Such receptacles or devices require a supply of water; or discharge liquid waste or liquid-borne solid waste; or require a supply of water and discharge waste to a drainage system.

DWV. Abbreviated term for drain, waste and vent piping as used in common plumbing practice.

P2503.5 DWV systems testing. Rough and finished plumbing installations shall be tested in accordance with Sections P2503.5.1 and P2503.5.2.

P2503.5.1 Rough plumbing. DWV systems shall be tested on completion of the rough piping installation by water or for piping systems other than plastic, by air with no evidence of leakage. Either test shall be applied to the drainage system in its entirety or in sections after rough piping has been installed, as follows:

1. Water test. . . . (not provided for brevity).

P2503.5.2 Finished plumbing. After the plumbing fixtures have been set and their traps filled with water, their connections shall be tested and proved gas tight and/or water tight as follows:

1. Water tightness. Each fixture shall be filled and then drained. Traps and fixture connections shall be proven water tight by visual inspection.
 
If that is what he wants then he needs to come out three times. once to see the insulation behind the tub, twice to see the air barrier, then a third time to do the rough plumbing
What he is asking for is unrealistic
Inspections are for the most part just a representative sampling of what is required and how it has been installed.
 
After framing inspection, we go back for insulation, the air barrier is in already place at the tub locations. No harm, no reason not to believe it is not there, we won't see the tub until final. If it leaks before that, we will be the last ones that are called.

More often than not, we need to go back for a framing reinspection, as they will be using insulation for fireblocking, we then do the gas pipe test inspection, and electrical meter set inspection. Ends up working out.
 
Here the plumbers are trained not to install the tub and showers along the exterior walls. The rough-in pipe is capped before the location for the trap.

Similarly with residential demising or separation walls they know to schedule partial drywall inspections before the tub or shower is installed.

For remodelers we provide an illustrated handout with the permits to help them along the path to righteousness!
 
Thanks for all the replies . I learned some things . I know one reason you can't install the tub before rough in plumbing inspection any more and that is because you have to fill the DWV pipes with water up to the highest vent on the house to test for leaks . Any lower vents and drains have to be caped or sealed with the temporary plugs . If the tub was in there is not much way to cap the overflow drain . He will be able to inspect the tub plumbing after the drywall is in because I make my baths 6 1/2 ft wide so I can make a small closet on the end of the tub with a door to open and access the plumbing . Also it has a basement below and I will leave a small removable panel in the ceiling to access the trap . It seems to me after he inspects the plumbing rough and comes back to inspect the insulation I can take him to the tub first to look at the insulation and I will have 2 pieces of 1/4" plywood already cut to cover the wall behind the tub and I can ask him if he wants me install that or does he want to come back before I set the tub . Does that sound logical ?
 
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conarb said:
Looks to me, as absurd as it is, the only way to comply is to remove the tub after it is inspected, install the insulation and air-barrier and after it is inspected reinstall the tub prior to sheetrock and it's nailing inspection. It's common here in the West and South Bay to have a shower lath inspection, but not in the East Bay, when I first saw it on an inspection card I actually called the inspector asking what he was looking for, he wasn't looking for lath (as defined in the codes) but waterproofing behind the lath, that's fine since we do that with shower pan inspection under the plumbing code. From what I've heard that inspection has gone away in the last code?
Click to expand...

We always see built in tubs installed at the framing stage. They have insulation and vapour barrier behind them. Same for the electrical panel. I don't understand what would be behind the tub that someone would need to see and cannot because there is insulation in the way.
 
tmurray said:
We always see built in tubs installed at the framing stage. They have insulation and vapour barrier behind them. Same for the electrical panel. I don't understand what would be behind the tub that someone would need to see and cannot because there is insulation in the way.
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tmurray said:
We always see built in tubs installed at the framing stage. They have insulation and vapour barrier behind them. Same for the electrical panel. I don't understand what would be behind the tub that someone would need to see and cannot because there is insulation in the way.
Click to expand...

T Murray:

They now want an air barrier behind the tub, which I understand is usually ¼" plywood, we can't install a vapor barrier because of condensation problems.
 
conarb said:
T Murray:

They now want an air barrier behind the tub, which I understand is usually ¼" plywood, we can't install a vapor barrier because of condensation problems.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to figure out what they are checking for...I could see if there was a major point load there, but if the rest of the wall is built a certain way, a reasonable person who is being prudent in their inspection would at most ask the contractor how that small section of wall was constructed and probably would be safe from a legal standpoint assuming it was the same.

I'm not sure how your code defines air barriers, but couldn't you also use a building paper?
 
tmurray said:
I'm just trying to figure out what they are checking for...I could see if there was a major point load there, but if the rest of the wall is built a certain way, a reasonable person who is being prudent in their inspection would at most ask the contractor how that small section of wall was constructed and probably would be safe from a legal standpoint assuming it was the same.

I'm not sure how your code defines air barriers, but couldn't you also use a building paper?
Click to expand...
No , it has to be a rigid material
 
tmurray said:
We always see built in tubs installed at the framing stage. They have insulation and vapour barrier behind them. Same for the electrical panel. I don't understand what would be behind the tub that someone would need to see and cannot because there is insulation in the way.
Click to expand...
Its not the insulation in the way , they inspect the framing when they do the rough plumbing , electrical, and hvac . Then they ok for the insulation to be installed . Then they come back to inspection the insulation and they dont want the tub or air block in the way . My question is are they going to make a special trip to inspect the air block before I can install the tub/shower ? I will be holding up the dry wall crew while the inspector takes his time of 2 or 3 days to come out .
 
Francis Vineyard said:
For interior bathtubs check out "tub waste and overflow plugs"

As a reminder the pressure or leak test is for 15 minutes.
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Is the 15 min for the dwv pipes , I have left it full for days waiting for the inspector to come at his leisure . What is he going to do , stand there and wait while I fill the pipes ? If Im not mistaken the pressure test for the supply lines is 50 psi for 24 hr .
 
Francis Vineyard said:
For interior bathtubs check out "tub waste and overflow plugs"

As a reminder the pressure or leak test is for 15 minutes.[/QU The tub cant be installed for the rough plumbing test any more . I dont think they come back for a connection to fixture inspection untill the final inspection . I do my own test each time a fixture is connected . I test the tub connection before the dry wall is installed . If you still have a leak to occur you just have to cut the dry wall or whatever .
Click to expand...
 
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