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Inspections per 2006 IPC 312.2

TimNY

TimNY

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Jan 13, 2010
Messages
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Location
Charleston, SC
I'm trying to figure out what this is saying.

It seems like you can test the building in sections, which is an obvious requirement for multi-story buildings.

Then it says every joint or pipe except the uppermost 10 feet must be subjected to 10 feet of head.

What the heck is the "next preceding section"?

Could you have physical breaks between floors to cap for testing, or would you need something like a cleanout in the stack where you could insert a balloon?

I mean, the joints between the "sections" also have to be tested, right?

Thanks,

Tim
 
All of the vent system must be tested for leaks;

Sewer gases are deadly; and one of the purposes of testing the vent system; as well as the drainage part of the sanitary drain; is to make sure that sewer gases cannot escape into the building (including the attic).

http://www.meridianeng.com/sewergas.html

Besides being highly explosive; sewer gases kill; and kill quickly.

Uncle Bob
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Uncle Bob,

Excellent post for those that do not feel it is necessary to test the vent system. You rock:)
 
Okay, tell me this. How will sewer gas escape a vent system that is open at the top into a building? Let's take pvc, how will the sewer gas escape even if the fittings are not glued. How is there going to be enough pressure to force the gases into the building if the vent system is open to free air?

Please teach me something here.
 
Okay, just a few thoughts of mine for ways vent pipes in the attic can come apart if not glued. Home owners climbing around in the attic storing boxes can seperate pipes from fittings. Mechanical service men repairing or replacing equipement in the attic. Roofers pulling up roof jacks while performing re-roofs. And then there is that silly code section that states, Drainage and vent water test a water test shall be applied to the drainage system either in its entirety or in section. Just my personal opinion.
 
>>>>>>>

Mule,

One way that sewer gases can escape into various areas of a structure is

similar to what Kevin Turner just posted. I have personally seen a

length of pvc pipe with a hairline crack / fracture in it. It was not visible

to the naked eye and did not become noticeable until the plumbers

performed a water test on it, ...then ' voila '! There it was!

A water test should be conducted on all drainage AND venting piping

...always!

Respectfully asking, but just out of curiosity, would you want your

piping systems tested for leaks [ in any new structures ] ? :D

<<<<<<
 
Okay...seems like I'm always playing devils advocate on this forum. BUT.... :)

312.1 Required tests. The permit holder shall make the applicable

tests prescribed in Sections 312.2 through 312.9 to determine

compliance with the provisions of this code.

Key word...applicable

So I can test the plumbing drainage and vent systems as prescribed in Sections 312.2 through 312.9 to determine compliance.

So I can use...

1. Section 312.2 Drainage and vent water test.

2. Section 312.3 Drainage and vent air test.

3. Section 312.4 Drainage and vent final test.

4. Section 312.5 Water supply system test.

5. Section 312.6 Gravity sewer test.

6. Section 312.7 Forced sewer test.

7. Section 312.8 Storm drainage system test.

Or 8. Section 312.9 Inspection and testing of backflow prevention assemblies.

Since we are talking about drainage and vent systems we will use only the sections that pertain to them.

1. Section 312.2 Drainage and vent water test.

2. Section 312.3 Drainage and vent air test.

3. Section 312.4 Drainage and vent final test.

We'll stick with PVC so let's throw out #2 because with the IPC you are not allowed to use air on PVC. So that leaves us with

Section 312.2 Drainage and vent water test.

Or Section 312.4 Drainage and vent final test.

Okay in my opinion Section 312.2 testing method is going to be used on the rough in.

Now Section 312.4 specifies that this is the section to use for the final test of the drainage and vent system because it states "Drainage and vent final test".

312.4 Drainage and vent final test. The final test of the completed

drainage and vent system shall be visual and insufficient

detail to determine compliance with the provisions of this code

except that the plumbing shall be subjected to a smoke test

where necessary for cause.

Key word "visual".

I believe that there is a typo in this paragraph though. In this section it states "shall be visual and insufficient detail to determine compliance"

I believe "insufficient detail" should be "in sufficient detail".

So on the drainage and vent final inspection, that inspection will be a visual and if you determine that something just don't look right you can require a smoke test.

Now... I'm ready for the floggings! :)
 
I think visual would include dumping tubs etc. If you saw a leak then the smoke test would be a good follow up.

I had a framing inspection today.. New second floor over existing first floor. Minimal work to be done on 1st floor. Plumber obviously worried about having something blow on the 2nd floor and damaging first floor. I just closed my eyes and pictured UB's avatar saying, "sewer gas kills!"

What I got from this thread: everything gets tested.
 
On a two story...yes you would test some of the lower floor vent system. But anything above the 10' head on the two story it will be a visual.

Single story....see my above answer.
 
Mule,

Two ways I have seen vent systems blocked so that they would have put sewer gas into the home are:

1. In northern climates the vents freezing over due to moisture coming out of the vent system, snow and ice buildup or both.

2. Have actually seen instances where the roofers cut the vent off flush with the roof deck and roofed over the top of the pipe rather than boot and flash the pipe thru the roof.
 
I could see that. At least the part about roofers. Now as far as snow and ice....not in our territories.

However even if you did do a water test on the vent system at the final, that wouldn't stop the roofers from chopping the vent stack off and roofing over it!

I guess it is more of a State issue. I could see the reasoning for testing the entire system in the areas where snow and ice could accumalate.

In Texas I see no need for it! Just a visual. I guess that is why the code specifies "The permit holder shall make the applicable

tests."

So in my opinion, in Texas, on single story structures, water test on the rough in, visual on second/top out.

Anybody agree??? I may be a loner on this one! :(
 
Mule,

312.2 Drainage and vent water test says:

A water test shall be applied to the drainage system either in its entirety or in sections. If applied to the entire system, all openings in the piping shall be tightly closed, except the highest opening, and the system shall be filled with water to the point of overflow. If the system is tested in sections, each opening shall be tightly plugged except the highest openings of the section under test, and each section shall be filled with water, but no section shall be tested with less than a 10-foot (3048 mm) head of water. In testing successive sections, at least the upper 10 feet (3048 mm) of the next preceding section shall be tested so that no joint or pipe in the building, except the uppermost 10 feet (3048 mm) of the system, shall have been submitted to a test of less than a 10-foot (3048 mm) head of water. This pressure shall be held for at least 15 minutes. The system shall then be tight at all points.

A drainage system is:

DRAINAGE SYSTEM. Piping within a public or private premise that conveys sewage, rainwater or other liquid wastes to a point of disposal. A drainage system does not include the mains of a public sewer system or a private or public sewage treatment or disposal plant.

How do you submit the above floor portions of the drainage system to the water test at rough-in, even in a single story house? It hasn't been installed yet.

Per 312.1 You submit the entire drainage system to final tests, AFTER, the plumbing fixtures have been set and their traps filled with water.

We require both the underslab (rough-in as it is described here) and above slab (top out) drainage system to be water tested. We do what 312.4 describes at final plumbing inspection.

Unless of course I am misunderstanding you and today a lot of good english is sound like greek to me. LOL
 
* * * *

Mule,

Using my example above, what if the plumbers install a length of pvc pipe with that

hairline crack in it, in the attic spaces, ...where are the sewer gases going to leak to,

or maybe between the 1st & 2nd floors, then where are the sewer gases going to

go?

Testing ' should be ' thorough on the whole system.

FWIW, in my current jurisdiction, I am not allowed to require a water or air test

on the "above slab plumbing" or on the final, regardless if it is a single story or a

multi-story single family dwelling. Can't upset the contractors... :mad:

* * * *
 
Actually busy...dang it..I hate it when they expect me to work!! Anyway short quick answer

So texasbo on the top out/2nd inspection do you guys require a water test on the entire system again? Do you require the water test to be 10' above the the roof?

Northstar

hairline crack? Okay, if there is a hairline crack and lets say a 2 inch vent opening opening...how is there going to be enough pressure to force sewer gas out of a hairline crack?
 
Mule,

We allow them to test in sections as allowed by the code. So the underfloor can be tested, then they can install test plug(s) to test the above floor.

We require that they test with 10 feet of head over the highest drainage fitting. To be honest, most test the underfloor again, when they test the above floor they just do the whole system, the cap they have on the building drain is more secure than putting in a test plug.

Yes on single story houses they have filled the whole system.
 
EDIT, I posted this before I was able to read your response. So if some of it don't make sense....sorry!

Okay....in my opinion the drainage system does not incorporate the vent system. They are two individual systems that work together to provide a safe intallation.

texas transplant you posted the definition for a drainage system which does not mention anything about including what a vent system is designed to do.

Section 312.2 specifies testing the "drainage system".

312.2 Drainage and vent water test. A water test shall be applied to the drainage system.

From the definitions. The drainage system conveys sewage, rainwater or other liquid wastes to a point of disposal. No where in this definition does it mention the vent system. Why..because there is a separate definition for the vent system.

VENT SYSTEM. A pipe or pipes installed to provide a flow of

air to or from a drainage system, or to provide a circulation of

air within such system to protect trap seals from siphonage and

backpressure.

In my opinion when you perform the test at the plumbing rough in, you are testing the vent system that could be affected by the drainage system in case of a sewer back up. You don't want sewer to be able to leak and get into a wall or cavity where it could cause all kinds of problems. This is the water test of the drainage and vent system as described.

If you perform the test in a manor that you say should be tested, a person would have to have all the vent stacks protruding through the roof ten feet above where the vent will be terminated. Isn't that what the code specifies?

From section 312.2 .....and each section shall be filled with water, but no section shall be tested with less than a 10-foot (3048 mm) head of water.

I'm sorry. I just can't see putting water on the vent system on a top out inspection. And I don't see anybody requiring the vent system to be tested with water ten feet above where the vent terminates the roof.

No malice intended here...just good discussions and debate.
 
a person would have to have all the vent stacks protruding through the roof ten feet above where the vent will be terminated. Isn't that what the code specifies?
Click to expand...
No a cap on the top of the vents with one vent extending 10 ft will produce a 10-foot head of water or about 5 psi on the entire system.

BTW I agree with your application of 312.2 the required test applies to the drainage sytem.
 
Okay..one vent extending 10 ft above the roof. Who's going to put the water in? :eek: Better yet, what inspector is going to set up a ladder to verify the 10 ft vent is full?

Also mtlogcabin, I can't believe someone agrees with me!

Thanks!!!
 
Mule,

We even kind of agree. And I am like you lets keep up good discussions, hell I argue enough with contractors and designer to want to argue with the guys on my side. :)

You notice in my reply I said 10 feet about the highest DRAINAGE fitting. We don't require that the vents be tested under a 10 foot head. The plumbers around here chose to install the entire top out, make sure the vent is extended 10 feet about the highest drainage fitting and fill the whole system with water. It is easier for them, and most say it allows them to make sure there are no leaks in the vent system such as Northstar talked about. And yes we have had jobs that had those cracked pipes or pin holes in the pipes. The plumbers could test just the drainage system, but it requires more work on their part so they take the quicker way.

We do not require that the vent be extended 10 feet above the roof for the test. On 99% of all houses, the vent thru the roof is 10 feet above the highest drainage fitting.

Hope I made sense. If not let me know and I will try again.
 
Uncle Bob said:
All of the vent system must be tested for leaks;Sewer gases are deadly; and one of the purposes of testing the vent system; as well as the drainage part of the sanitary drain; is to make sure that sewer gases cannot escape into the building (including the attic).

http://www.meridianeng.com/sewergas.html

Besides being highly explosive; sewer gases kill; and kill quickly.

Uncle Bob
Click to expand...
Listed autovents are legal to terminate in the attic.
 
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