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IRC Building Permit in Texas

tbz

tbz

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Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
1,362
Location
PA/NJ - Borderlands
Good morning all,

I have a question for those of you in Texas.

Builder files for a permit for a new home, the plan does not have a deck on it.

The builder then contracts with the deck builder for a deck to be built/

Deck builder says to the builder you need to get a permit for the deck, not on prints.

Builder says you don't need a permit for the deck.

Deck is attached to new house.

If the deck guy gets a signed contract from the builder that says, builder responsible for the plans, engineering and permits.

As the inspector who is liable in your book?

This is not a legal question, just a question that came up on another forum were a deck builder is having a small dispute with a builder who we all know is wrong about the permit.

The deck builder has had what he calls local permit stores get mad at him for not pulling the permit.

If they were a homeowner I could see it, but as a sub to a builder how can the local AHJ jump on the deck guy for this part?

Input or should I say insight please.
 
ist2_4611343-pointing-fingers.jpg
 
Not in Texas, but I'll chime in anyway.

Who's name is on the active Permit application? That's my first responsible party.

Is there a property owner other than the Builder? Builder and owner are jointly and severally liable.

mj
 
I do not get into liability...just wether or not it complies and there is a permit. If I want to find out who is responsible, I will issue a stop work order....that usually will get a call from the person in charge...
 
Mark,

It is not at that point, the point being argued is simply the deck builder says there needs to be a permit for the deck, the builder says you don't need a permit for the deck.

MJ,

Builder pulled all other permits, except I believe electrical & Plumbing.

I guess my question is, as an inspector, on a project with a main builder, why would you even look at a sub as being the problem.

I can see some sub's like electrical & Plumbing, but is deck building that much of a specialty that you need a special permit from the deck builder/sub?
 
tbz said:
Mark,I guess my question is, as an inspector, on a project with a main builder, why would you even look at a sub as being the problem.

I can see some sub's like electrical & Plumbing, but is deck building that much of a specialty that you need a special permit from the deck builder/sub?
Click to expand...
Builders hire different subs all the time for framing, trim, roof, DECK, etc. It all falls under the "General Contractor" (read Applicant) for me. I would agree that the Builder is responsible, and an addendum should be filed with the original Permit. Since we require engineers as-built drawing after completion of a new home, the addendum would need to be filed before the final is approved.

mj
 
OK, here's my take on it. It all depends on how high the deck is if it is required to have a permit or not OR if it is part of the egress.

2009 IRC permits that are excempt

10. Decks not exceeding 200 square feet (18.58m2) in area,

that are not more than 30 inches (762 mm) above grade

at any point, are not attached to a dwelling and do not

serve the exit door required by Section R311.4.

So if it is not within the above then it is required to have a pemit and the person responsible for the deck is the person who filed for the original house permit.
 
Once it is determined that a permit is required the building official is not involved with the discussion as to who should get the permit.

Whoever got the permit was effectively acting as an agent to the Owner. Thus the owner is ultimately responsible for the consequences of not having a permit.
 
who normally owns the house during the construction stage, say the track homes before they sale
 
I am with Mark K on this one too. The BO can red tag the project (if they really want to) until the issue is resolved, but if a permit is required, and no licensing or registration is required for the sub performing the work, then it is up to the owner/builder to figure out who is pulling the permit.

Mark K said:
Once it is determined that a permit is required the building official is not involved with the discussion as to who should get the permit.Whoever got the permit was effectively acting as an agent to the Owner. Thus the owner is ultimately responsible for the consequences of not having a permit.
Click to expand...
 
who wants to be or not to be the responsible party for the deck, the GC, if not the Owner (if allowed in TX) then deck builder, if the GC will be responsible then file plan and admend permit, if the GC does not want to be responsible will the home owner be, wait the home is not done does the customer actualy own the home? last the specialty contractor could pul the permint, just like a swimming pool installer, not part of the building, in my opnion not part of the GCs responsiblity.

in the end somone has to be responsible when I show up for the inspection and want that sorted out before I show up and the finger pointing starts
 
Until the final CO is issued the 'problem' is the builders, of course it would depend upon how the contract between the builder of the house and the owner is written. However as a BO, I would issue the violation to the builder and (of course) wouldn't issue a CO until the issue was resolved. With no CO the house can not be occupied, no occupancy, no payments, no payments the builder has incentive to correct the situation. Just two cents from an airport guy.
 
So how do you keep new home owner out when home is complete. Several time I have done the final and the family is moved in they could care less about CO. You going to kick them out? They don't have enough brass around here to fine them even.
 
David Henderson said:
So how do you keep new home owner out when home is complete. Several time I have done the final and the family is moved in they could care less about CO. You going to kick them out? They don't have enough brass around here to fine them even.
Click to expand...
Around here, the mortgage companies are more frequently requesting NSFR COs (or Final Occupancy Inspection Reports), prior to closing. But you are right, for whatever reason, once the family gets in, they could care less if their home is up to the "minimum" code standards. Brass is a rare commodity, even when it comes to constituents in the non-voting ETJ/SIDs. Public perception travels a long ways. We have made them move furniture out, but only when the family wasn't actually in, just furniture.
 
We have builders do this quite a bit up here, a lot of times the house is under agreement and the future homeowners want a deck. I inform the builder they need to amend the permit and provide drawings for review. If the builder is using a sub it doesn't matter, he's the one ultimately responsible. I can't issue a separate permit to the sub anyways, because the building it's attached to doesn't have a c/o.
 
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