IRC Landing at convenience door

[oyo23]

I interpret that section R 311.7.6 and exception applies only to the Means of Egress door and does not apply to the convenience door.
Any thoughts?

 

[Wstubbs]

It says each stairway

 

[Wstubbs]

but you're interpreting that because section 311 is MOE?

 

[oyo23]

but you're interpreting that because section 311 is MOE?

Correct!!

 

[Wstubbs]

well.. since there is no other place that mentions stairs and such.. i take it as any MOE not just emergency MOE. i've never read anything about convenience door. The commentary says the section is for exit and MOE requirments.

 

[Wstubbs]

if you are the BO i guess you'd be correct if enacting tiger code

 

[oyo23]

if you are the BO i guess you'd be correct if enacting tiger code

if you are the BO i guess you'd be correct if enacting tiger code

I am architect having dispute with BO. The door and three steps connect pantry and a garage. This cannot be an egress, because the door lead into hazardous space (garage)

 

[Wstubbs]

oh.. well the exception seems to apply in this case.. IMO. if the door doesn't swing over the stairs

 

[Wstubbs]

..and a landing would probably get in the way of your parking space, huh.

 

[oyo23]

oh.. well the exception seems to apply in this case.. IMO. if the door doesn't swing over the stairs

Yes, it does swing over the steps. My point is: why even this exception is there? Do we allow egress through adjacent hazardous space?

 

[oyo23]

Yes, you got it. I had a scenario in the past: the walk-out basement had no landing at the top, because the stair were not consider as a mean of egress.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

R311 says the means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizonal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the egress door. An attached garage is part of the dwelling. If there was a second door (convenience door) from the garage into the house, then it would not apply to the second door. So, if only one door the door cannot swing over the stairs if no landing.

 

[Yikes]

An attached garage is part of the dwelling.

Are you sure? See this recent thread: https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/garage-no-man-door.37670/

 

[Mr. Inspector]

That thread is about detached garages. We are talking about an attached garage here.

 

[bill1952]

Just from a code writing point of view, I believe most of this section applies to all means of egress, not just the one required. The Egress Door minimum size and swing is specifically called out as required for that one door. And exterior landing is only required for the m o.e. door.

It appears to me the rest of the requirements apply to all means of egress doors. Even the business about "without the use of a key or special knowledge" applies to all means of egress. Also the exception for a top landing applies to all doors in any means of egress.

I don't know the source of a garage being a hazardous space but while a door is not required between dwelling and attached garage, I believe the door and any elevation change associated with it has to comply with the Means of Egress section. (Which is R318 in 2024 IRC.)

I believe the concept that any door, stair, ramp, etc. that may be used as a means of egress shall comply with the requirements unless specifically called out, like door size and exterior landings in IRC.

 

[Joe.B]

How about a pocket door? Problem solved.

(I'll take my 10% commission in m&m's please)

 

[Wstubbs]

How about a pocket door? Problem solved.

(I'll take my 10% commission in m&m's please)

might be possible to be self closing with a weight and pully system. interesting idear

 

[Joe.B]

might be possible to be self closing with a weight and pully system. interesting idear

Would it need to be self-closing?

 

[Wstubbs]

for an attached garage in a residence

 

[Joe.B]

for an attached garage in a residence

A door that goes from the garage into the residence, yes. But a closet (pantry) in a garage?

 

[Joe.B]

R302.5 Dwelling-garage opening and penetration protection.
Openings and penetrations through the walls or ceilings
separating the dwelling from the garage shall be in accordance
with Sections R302.5.l through R302.5.3.
R302.5.1 Opening protection. Openings from a private
garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes
shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage
and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not
less than 1 3/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb-
core steel doors not less than 1 3/8 inches (35 mm)
thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors. Doors shall be self-latching
and equipped with a self-closing or automatic-closing
device.
Exception: Where the residence and the private garage
are protected by an automatic residential fire sprinkler
system in accordance with Sections R309.6 and R313,
other door openings between the private garage and
the residence need only be self-closing and self-latching.
This exception shall not apply to rooms used for
sleeping purposes.

 

[Wstubbs]

i assumed the pantry connects to the kitchen or otherwise the rest of the home

 

[Joe.B]

i assumed the pantry connects to the kitchen or otherwise the rest of the home

We'll have to wait and see if the OP weighs back in. Hard to tell from the limited information available.