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Is a guard required?

R

retire09

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
365
Location
Alaska
I have a two story building with large fixed glass windows on the second floor. Some overlook the floor below and others are in exterior walls.

They are over 9sf, over 36" above the floor but not less then 18" above the floor. They are all adjacent to walking areas.

The architect is saying they do not have to be tempered glass or provided with guard rails for fall protection.

I beleive the glass is being used as a guard and per 2407.1 and must be tempered or some other guard provided.

Opinions?
 
$ ~ $

So as to assist you, ...please tell us what code & what year.

Thanks!

$ ~ $
 
Do you have a photo? If I understand what you are trying to say, it sounds like they either need to provide guards or tempered glass, but a photo would help clear things up.
 
You are saying they are NOT within 18" of the floor?In that case, no safety glazing or guard required. The window has to meet all four of the conditions.
 
Safety glazing is not required--only three of the four conditions are met. The window is not a guard or a railing, so the requirements for glass guards and railings are not applicable.

If this were required, then almost every exterior window in a building in the second story and above would be required to have safety glazing since most windows are adjacent to walking surfaces (depending on placement of furniture).
 
These windows are in a room with pool tables and are only 19" off the floor with nothing to prevent breaking or falling thru single pane glass to a dining room floor below. Chairs are lining the wall along the glass. This is an accident waiting to happen. If this were on the 1st floor, I would not ask.

If this was open, a guard or tempered glass would be required so why is this not a situation of glass being used as a guard?
 
If one is in code enforcement, then you cannot demand more than what the code requires.

Is the use of standard glazing wise? Probably not in this specific situation (pool tables with potential errant balls flying about), but there is nothing in the code that requires safety glazing. The architect and owner may be advised to provide safety glazing because of the potential risk and subsequent liability if something should happen--but demanding it? No.
 
Why do you think people will be falling into the glazed areas? Is this a place that is known for rowdy pool players?

Are the windows part of a wall?

If yes then they are not a guard

GUARD. A building component or a system of building components located at or near the open sides of elevated walking surfaces that minimizes the possibility of a fall from the walking surface to a lower level.
 
No safety glazing required! I agree with "fatboy" & "RLGA" statement, all 4 conditions must

be applicable by the code. Their insurance provider may have a different view of the

window(s) application and require something else.

The building owners are certainly allowed, and encouraged to go "above the code

minimums" if they want to.

.
 
I've never seen a situation quit like this before. If the glass breaks, it will fall on dining tables below. The 1" above the 18" trigger for the tempered glass will not save anyone. I think it will be broken soon by someone pushing a chair back.
 
And fortunatly the code is a minimum standard and not a wish or what if list. When as a designer I was presented with "I think it should be this way"; or "I would like to see you do this" having done my homework and known my code I would ask to be informed and educated as to what I had overlooked including the article numbers.... The list always came back decidedly shorter. 2406.1 Human impact loads; 2406.4 Hazardous locations. The following shall be considered specific hazardous locations requiring safety glazing materials: 7. Glazing in an individual fixed or operable panel, other

than in those locations described in preceding Items 5

and 6, which meets >>> ALL <<< of the following conditions:

7.1. Exposed area of an individual pane >> greater << than 9 square feet (0.84 m2);

7.2. Exposed bottom edge >> less than << 18 inches (457 mm) above the floor;

7.3. Exposed top edge greater than 36 inches (914 mm) above the floor; >>> and <<<

7.4. One or more walking surface(s) within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally of the plane of the glazing.

Exception: Safety glazing for Item 7 is not required for the following installations:.....

I personally THINK Impact resistant glazing to prevent wind borne debris penetration is a wonderful thing and should be used in every glazing panel everywhere

but I can't make it happen.............
 
Just an observation...

If we're to believe Hollywood, NO glazing is required to be safety glazing! :D
 
Just because the glass slips past the hazardous locations criteria doesn't mean a guard isn't required. A guard (of any type, be it glass, wood or steel) is required where the adjacent surface is >30" below. Tempered glass can serve this purpose, or it can be purely decorative. If they refuse to put safety glass then make them put a guardrail complete with intermediates to meet the 4" sphere rule.
 
lpiburn said:
Just because the glass slips past the hazardous locations criteria doesn't mean a guard isn't required. A guard (of any type, be it glass, wood or steel) is required where the adjacent surface is >30" below. Tempered glass can serve this purpose, or it can be purely decorative. If they refuse to put safety glass then make them put a guardrail complete with intermediates to meet the 4" sphere rule.
Click to expand...
Guards are only required on "open-sided walking surfaces" per Section 1013.2 (2012 IBC). If the elevated space is enclosed using windows with fixed glazing, and the glazing is not required to be safety glazing (i.e. all four conditions are not met), then a guard is not required.
 
You could make the same argument about a walkway taped over with visqueen but it still wouldn't be compliant. I would say that material you can fall through to the floor below qualifies as open sided for the purposes of this discussion. Just because there is "something" physically there doesn't mean it counts as a closure for this purpose.
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Besides, visqueen wouldn't be compliant based on other requirements, including flame spread or the room corner test. :P
 
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