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Is a window accessed by the public required to be accessed by a wheelchair?

Stanovby said:
There is an existing walkup window there now without a curb ramp not built by us. The original plan was to move the window all the way out to the front to make it flush with the main dining room wall so that it could be accessed from public access, but that requires some helical piles so we are trying to figure out a way to get around that.
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McDonald's has something they call a BDAP, which I forget what it stands for, but there is kitchen equipment and they want to be able to have a door going out of the area and also have a walkup window. There will be new equipment where the existing walkup window is so that's why the space for a curb ramp is getting even less.

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Not an ideal solution, but you *could* take out the bollards and ramp down to the drive aisle - at that point it's a curb ramp and you may have enough fall to make it work.
 
ooooohhhhh McDonalds! let me know when your complete with the non accessible transaction window. that will be a money maker.

I see this is the ice cream window that we see in so many locations. So able bodied individuals can get a cone but the disabled cannot? This absolutely needs to be accessible. if it is not, the quantity of lawsuits will exceed the Hamburgler's bill
 
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MtnArch said:
Not an ideal solution, but you *could* take out the bollards and ramp down to the drive aisle - at that point it's a curb ramp and you may have enough fall to make it work.
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My understanding is that you need an adequate landing at the top and I think the approach for the window cant overlap the door swing
 
How do people get into the business with the raised area in front of the door?
If you are moving the service window flush with the raised entrance why can you not make the service window accessable?

The helical piers or othe structural support is nor an accessablty issue , that is an construction issue.,you should be able to permit the piers with the city, foundations are built to the edge of sidewalk frequently.
 
TheCommish said:
How do people get into the business with the raised area in front of the door?
If you are moving the service window flush with the raised entrance why can you not make the service window accessable?

The helical piers or othe structural support is nor an accessablty issue , that is an construction issue.,you should be able to permit the piers with the city, foundations are built to the edge of sidewalk frequently.
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The original plan was to move the window out to be flush and then just lower the window to the accessible height. its a question about time waiting for the structural calculations to be done. We were told by our structural engineer that the calculations would be pretty intense for this particular location. She has worked on this project in another location of the building so she knows it well.
 
There appears to be an overwhelming consensus that the window needs to be accessible. If it takes a bit more time to design a compliant solution, so be it. McDonald's (or their franchisee) will just have to be patient.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
There appears to be an overwhelming consensus that the window needs to be accessible. If it takes a bit more time to design a compliant solution, so be it. McDonald's (or their franchisee) will just have to be patient.
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yes that is correct. This did get pushed back so I have a little more time. I just wanted to be able to point out in the code or in ada what's required or to find another solution. There is an existing walkup window right now without a ramp so that's interesting
 
Can you make it an door opening with a lowered window height and include a 4-inch check ledge.
 
I've been following this one and I get it's complicated with city scape, restrictive existing building, corporate standards, etc. Just feels a little like trying to add accessibility to a design rather than designing with accessibility in mind from beginning. The existing and 20% and technical infeasability may get you out but I have to wonder if putting window in a different place or total rethink of plan wouldn't be a better solution. I come into projects and an architect has a plan sketched based on an auditorium he did 20 years ago and asks how to make it accessible. Usually my solution is throw it away and start the design over. Accessibility is a whole new world requiring new design solutions.

Not criticizing OP, they're just doing the job they were hired to do.
 
bill1952 said:
Just feels a little like trying to add accessibility to a design rather than designing with accessibility in mind from beginning. . . . I come into projects and an architect has a plan sketched based on an auditorium he did 20 years ago and asks how to make it accessible. Usually my solution is throw it away and start the design over. Accessibility is a whole new world requiring new design solutions.
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It's different when dealing with existing buildings, but this has been my complaint for 50 years. My state incorporated accessibility into the state building code in 1974 -- literally 50 years ago. Even today, it's obvious that many designs for new buildings don't start out with accessibility as a fundamental criterion. As a code consultant, I still get requests to review a design (for a new building) and "Tell me what I need to do for accessibility."

Scary.
 
Do the professors even touch ADA in classes?

Engineers, do they loose any sleep over ADA regulations?
 
SCBO1 said:
Do the professors even touch ADA in classes?

Engineers, do they loose any sleep over ADA regulations?
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Dunno. I went through architecture school before the ADA. I can tell you that mention of something called a "building code" was very limited, and it was treated as somewhat of a necessary evil -- to be avoided at all costs unless/until you couldn't avoid it any longer. There was no requirement for code compliance or code review for our thesis projects.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
Dunno. I went through architecture school before the ADA. I can tell you that mention of something called a "building code" was very limited, and it was treated as somewhat of a necessary evil -- to be avoided at all costs unless/until you couldn't avoid it any longer. There was no requirement for code compliance or code review for our thesis projects.
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After all of this we are going back to the original plan and extending the window location out to the front so all I need to do is lower that to accessible height
 
Accessibility is taught more at the conceptual, aspirational level. So they might talk about how a person with vision impairments will perceive architectural space via the reverberations off of surface materials. But telling them that installing a sink rim at 34 1/16” aff instead of 34” aff will result in a lawsuit will simply turn them off and bore them.
 
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