• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Is secondary exit required for a room on ground floor which is a bedroom of secondary suite in basement

S

sunyaer

Registered User
Joined
Apr 21, 2022
Messages
338
Location
Toronto
There is an existing house (older than 5 years) where a secondary suite was added in basement which has a bedroom on ground floor. There is a dedicated stairs with less than 6 risers for this room to go down to basement.

There are fire separations between the primary unit of the house and the new added secondary suite, and smoke alarms are interconnected, while these are not of interest of this post.

There is a window for the bedroom on ground floor which belongs to the secondary suite in the basement, is this bedroom required to have a secondary means of egress? (which can be achieved by using the window of this bedroom.)
 
California Residential Code:

[RB] EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENING. An operable exterior window, door or similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency. (See also “Grade floor opening.”)

R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue opening required.
Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have not less than one operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, an emergency escape and rescue opening shall be required in each sleeping room. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

R310.2.1 Minimum opening area. Emergency and escape rescue openings shall have a net clear opening of not less than 5.7 square feet (0.530 m2). The net clear opening dimensions required by this section shall be obtained by the normal operation of the emergency escape and rescue opening from the inside. The net clear height of the opening shall be not less than 24 inches (610 mm) and the net clear width shall be not less than 20 inches (508 mm).

Exception: Grade floor openings or below-grade openings shall have a net clear opening area of not less than 5 square feet (0.465 m2).

[RB] GRADE FLOOR OPENING. A window or other opening located such that the sill height of the opening is not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) above or below the finished ground level adjacent to the opening. (See also “Emergency escape and rescue opening.”)

R310.2.2 Window sill height. Where a window is provided as the emergency escape and rescue opening, it shall have the bottom of the clear opening not greater than 44 inches (1118 mm) measured from the floor; where the sill height is below grade, it shall be provided with a window well in accordance with Section R310.2.3
 
It looks like that there is no need to have secondary means of egress since the travel from the bedroom down to basement exit is not more than 1 storey.
 

Attachments

  • 5E7A57DE-9AD8-4490-B664-EE28BE62BD74.jpeg
    5E7A57DE-9AD8-4490-B664-EE28BE62BD74.jpeg
    564.9 KB · Views: 11
  • 980E0F59-D5A1-46BA-A7D8-7B910CC34936.jpeg
    980E0F59-D5A1-46BA-A7D8-7B910CC34936.jpeg
    744.2 KB · Views: 13
You are correct.

There are egress requirements from a bedroom, which is typically accomplished by a window, but could be a door. There is also such a thing as a combination room where there is a bedroom and an attached adjacent room as part of the bedroom if certain conditions are met - see OBC 9.5.1.4. In that case, egress can be accomplished through the combination room.

There are also requirements for the suite, which typically would just require the front door is treated as the exit, with exception of a three storey dwelling sitting on a full basement.

The IRC codes used in the US have specific requirements related to egress from basements (see ICE's post) that are not reflected in Canadian codes.
 
tmurray said:
You are correct.
...
Click to expand...
This is the layout of the basement suite.
Does the exit route of bedroom 2 which is on ground floor going across the living room and kitchen area in basement give rise to non-compliance to the code?
 

Attachments

  • Basement Suite.jpg
    Basement Suite.jpg
    78.2 KB · Views: 14
sunyaer said:
This is the layout of the basement suite.
Does the exit route of bedroom 2 which is on ground floor going across the living room and kitchen area in basement give rise to non-compliance to the code?
Click to expand...
No, since it has an egress window and you do not need to go up more than a single storey to access an exit.
 
ICE said:
That must make for a strange tape measure. Say it out-loud --- one thousand one hundred eighteen millimeters. Some people like that....go figure.
Click to expand...

I muuuuuuch prefer working in metric. It makes math so much easier. Stairs, fer example. Take height in centimetres divided by stairs and voila - a very precise, decimal based measurement for the rise.

sunyaer said:
This is the layout of the basement suite.
Does the exit route of bedroom 2 which is on ground floor going across the living room and kitchen area in basement give rise to non-compliance to the code?
Click to expand...

Nope. Has an egress window. The only issue would be is if this suite is large enough to be treated as a duplex, but you mentioned fire seps so even then.... no worries.
 
tmurray said:
No, since it has an egress window and you do not need to go up more than a single storey to access an exit.
Click to expand...
There was a bit of confusion here. What I meant was that I want to eliminate the egress window, does it work?
 
See attached picture with the egress window as regular window. Following is Ontario Building Code reference, occupants in bedroom 2 only need to travel for 1 storey (actually less than 1 storey) down to the basement walk out stairs, so bedroom 2 is code compliant without an egress window, please comment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3), every dwelling unit containing more than 1 storey shall have exits or
egress doors located so that it shall not be necessary to travel up or down more than 1 storey to reach a level served by,
(a) an egress door to a public corridor, enclosed exit stair or exterior passageway, or
(b) an exit doorway not more than 1 500 mm above adjacent ground level.
(2) Where a dwelling unit is not located above or below another suite, the travel limit from a floor level in the dwelling
unit to an exit or egress door is permitted to exceed 1 storey where that floor level is served by an openable window or
door,
(a) providing an unobstructed opening of not less than 1 000 mm in height and 550 mm in width, and
(b) located so that the sill is not more than,
(i) 1 000 mm above the floor, and
(ii) 7 m above adjacent ground level.
(3) The travel limit from a floor level in a dwelling unit to an exit or egress door is permitted to exceed 1 storey where
that floor level has direct access to a balcony.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, it looks like the following article (Ontario Building Code) requires that bedroom 2 has an egress window, because bedroom 2 is not on the same floor level as the basement walk out door / stairs having direct access to exterior:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9.9.10.1. Egress Windows or Doors for Bedrooms
(1) Except where a door on the same floor level as the bedroom provides direct access to the exterior, every floor level
containing a bedroom in a suite shall be provided with at least one outside window that,
(a) is openable from the inside without the use of tools,
(b) provides an individual, unobstructed open portion having a minimum area of 0.35 m² with no dimension less than
380 mm, and
(c) maintains the required opening described in Clause (b) without the need for additional support.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could you please analyze the code and comment on whether or not bedroom 2 is code compliant without the window as egress window?
 

Attachments

  • Basement Suite.jpg
    Basement Suite.jpg
    79.5 KB · Views: 6
sunyaer said:
There was a bit of confusion here. What I meant was that I want to eliminate the egress window, does it work?
Click to expand...
Only if the building has sprinklers..

"Direct access" means a door that is IN the bedroom, and opens directly to the outside world.

In unsprinklered part 9 buildings, residential suites need an egress window AND a means of egress.
 
Inspector Gadget said:
Only if the building has sprinklers..

"Direct access" means a door that is IN the bedroom, and opens directly to the outside world.

In unsprinklered part 9 buildings, residential suites need an egress window AND a means of egress.
Click to expand...
If a door open to the outside has to be IN the bedroom, would the bedroom1 in the basement suite need an egress window as well?
 
sunyaer said:
There was a bit of confusion here. What I meant was that I want to eliminate the egress window, does it work?
Click to expand...
There is some difference here between the Ontario building code and the national building code.

The Ontario code contains an exception for where a exterior door is located on the same building level as the bedroom.

The national code contains an exception for when a suite is sprinklered.

Neither of these exceptions appear in the other code.

To answer your question, I would say yes, the Ontario Building Code would permit the removal of an egress window in this case, provided one does not have to go up the stairs to leave the building. If you have to go up the stairs to get out of the building, then no, the egress window cannot be removed.
 
tmurray said:
...

To answer your question, I would say yes, the Ontario Building Code would permit the removal of an egress window in this case, provided one does not have to go up the stairs to leave the building. If you have to go up the stairs to get out of the building, then no, the egress window cannot be removed.
Click to expand...
It looks to me that the removal of an egress window still allows occupants in bedroom 2 to go up or down not more than 1 storey to reach the basement level served by the basement walkout stairs, am I correct?

Ontario Building Code:

9.9.9.1. Travel Limit to Exits or Egress Doors
(1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3), every dwelling unit containing more than 1 storey shall have exits or
egress doors located so that it shall not be necessary to travel up or down more than 1 storey to reach a level served by,
...
 
sunyaer said:
It looks to me that the removal of an egress window still allows occupants in bedroom 2 to go up or down not more than 1 storey to reach the basement level served by the basement walkout stairs, am I correct?

Ontario Building Code:

9.9.9.1. Travel Limit to Exits or Egress Doors
(1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3), every dwelling unit containing more than 1 storey shall have exits or
egress doors located so that it shall not be necessary to travel up or down more than 1 storey to reach a level served by,
...
Click to expand...
No, there is no interaction between 9.9.9. and 9.9.10.

9.9.9. is specific requirements related to egress from dwelling units as a whole. The intention of this section is to create an exception where an exit is not required on every single floor of a dwelling if certain conditions are met.

In contrast, 9.9.10. deals specifically with egress from bedrooms, typically located within a dwelling. The intention is to establish a requirement for egress windows and exceptions to this requirement.

If the intention of the code was that these two clauses were related, there would be language in each clause pointing to the other clause, however, there is not, so we must conclude that these clauses are to be interpreted in isolation of one another. i.e.: both requirements must be met and if they are in conflict, the more restrictive applies (this is in contrast to our American friends on this board, as the most specific applies in their case).

9.9.10.1.(1) is very specific that the door must be on the same floor level as the bedroom.
 
tmurray said:
9.9.10.1.(1) is very specific that the door must be on the same floor level as the bedroom.
Click to expand...

My house is 20 years old, 2 stories, there is only one stairs serving the house, while there are 3 windows on second floor, are these windows serving as egress windows? (no balcony on second floor)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top