Laws require enforcement

[north star]

& ~ ~ ~ &

"Or we could just stop........What's wrong with where we are right now?"

Special interests groups guarantee that there will be no stopping [ i.e. - remember the Arc Fault Breaker "requirements" ? ]

& ~ ~ ~ &

 

[steveray]

Sooooo....When I write on your plan review that specs and listings are to be on site for inspection and they are not, because they are not part of the plans, and the job stops for a week until I can reinspect.....Who gets fired? I do agree that it is not ALL the DP's responsibility...but we just know that is our best shot at getting good information.

In defense of us RDP's I find in far to many instances the red pens are brought out for the way the reviewer wants it presented on paper even though the intent at code compliance is there. When I say shaft wall to meet UL design U417 I don't feel it necessary to draw sections and details of the whole system. Drives me nuts…...Just sayin'.

 

[mtlogcabin]

When I say shaft wall to meet UL design U417 I don't feel it necessary to draw sections and details of the whole system.

So you assume the guy in the field constructing that wall magically knows what it consist of or do you assume he carries a UL book in his truck or app on his I-Phone to research what you are calling for?

 

[ADAguy]

mt, you have hit on the "why" most everything should be "detailed", what with CM mutiple prime and no or very few supers, who is to direct the interface between subs?

Code books you ask, isn't the contractor "suppose" to own codes or only the architects and engineers?

As to A&E's not under standing codes! Give me a break, my shelves are groaning with 100 years of codes that are my bibles when explaining to "newbie" B.O.'s and their staffs (many who don't retain the old codes) (this due to space limitations!) existing construction that was compliant in its day.

 

[nitramnaed]

So you assume the guy in the field constructing that wall magically knows what it consist of or do you assume he carries a UL book in his truck or app on his I-Phone to research what you are calling for?

Yes…………...

 

[nitramnaed]

Sooooo....When I write on your plan review that specs and listings are to be on site for inspection and they are not, because they are not part of the plans, and the job stops for a week until I can reinspect.....Who gets fired? I do agree that it is not ALL the DP's responsibility...but we just know that is our best shot at getting good information.

I should have been more clear. Something like U417 is proprietary. There is only one way it can be built. Why provide all the detailing.

 

[nitramnaed]

mt, you have hit on the "why" most everything should be "detailed", what with CM mutiple prime and no or very few supers, who is to direct the interface between subs? Code books you ask, isn't the contractor "suppose" to own codes or only the architects and engineers?

As to A&E's not under standing codes! Give me a break, my shelves are groaning with 100 years of codes that are my bibles when explaining to "newbie" B.O.'s and their staffs (many who don't retain the old codes) (this due to space limitations!) existing construction that was compliant in its day.

I have code books in dead storage going back to 1978. My age sometimes dictates that when a intern comes and ask me about exiting I still find myself telling them to look in chapter 33. ops

 

[Min&Max]

Just a couple thoughts;

I would be very content to hit the reset button and return to the 2000 International codes.

The codes are the mess they are because of building officials. We are the only ones voting. Ultimately we are responsible, with residential fire sprinklers being a glaring exception.

The last people I want voting on code requirements are engineers and architects. You wouldn't be able to build a doghouse without a full set of stamped plans.

Builders/contractors are every bit as professional as engineers and architects and I value their insight as much as any engineers or architects.

The day is done and I am going home. Have a good weekend everybody. It looks like I will be moving snow.

 

[conarb]

ADAGuy started this thread with this statement:

Laws require enforcement My apologies for not being able to respond to the recently close thread.

Yes, laws are often political in origin, their orgins often being driven by selfserving interests.

Our disabled population did not ask for but does appreciate the access provided by the ADA, this in spite of the lack of adequate research by which initial ADAAG was drafted.

These laws are totally left-wing driven political activism, a time bomb in ADA is the mentally ill inclusion including the drug addicted are also protected by ADA. Our city of Albany is required to clear the homeless out of it's shoreline for a park, they have been fighting them for years, the homeless and the drug addicted are now using ADA activist groups and their lawyers to stay in the shoreline called the Albany Bulb (a former landfill).

Outside agitators raise false hopes.It's time to drop the charade concerning Albany's obligation to evict squatters from the Albany Bulb to make way for a state park.

Some 60 "campers" won't be allowed to block plans for a park serving all the people, no matter how much ruckus is raised.

Albany is offering the Bulbers temporary food and shelter. It's also trying to find them housing and jobs. However, outside agitators are doing everything they can to obstruct the city and run up the taxpayers' tab, last estimated at $570,000.

The Bulbers are pawns to these troublemakers who have an agenda of political and economic change behind all causes they espouse. Some have reportedly identified themselves with the recent "Occupy" movement. So, there are the usual City Council and street demonstrations along with ludicrous lawsuits.



The bulk of the Bulbers are from elsewhere but don't fit into normal society anywhere. Regular work and constraints of city housing aren't for them or their numerous dogs.

The agitators, who falsely raise their hopes of remaining on the Bulb, are cynical and cruel.

Dave Greer

Albany¹

These "outside agitators" are disability activist groups exploiting the homeless and mentally ill to line their own pockets with lawsuit settlements just like the Sierra Club does with environmental litigation.

There were an estimated 60 people living on the Bulb last spring, when the City Council voted to begin enforcing the city's anti-camping ordinance and also set up the transition program. Enforcement was supposed to begin in October, with the idea of clearing the Bulb before the rainy winter began. That was delayed until December because of slow progress in transitioning Bulb residents to housing.A lawsuit was also filed by Bulb residents and their advocates. A temporary restraining order was denied, but the suit continues and a hearing date has not been set. One of the issues in the lawsuit concerns questions about whether the temporary shelter complies with the Americans with Disabilities Act. The city announced in December that it was processing the requests of 32 campers seeking accommodations for their disabilities.

Albany police are currently citing campers for violating park rules and some Bulb residents have been arrested for drug possession and outstanding warrants. But according to City Clerk Nicole Almaguer, Albany has not cleared any campsites beyond ones removed two months ago that the city said were camps of people who had been housed. ²

So if there are any left here who really believe that ADA is to help the truly handicapped, you should know that you are in bed with activist groups working to line their own pockets with settlement monies. How did I see through this scam:

1) Activist language, like changing Handicapped to Disabled, what difference does it make?

2) The video Mark posted with the Disabled refusing to obey the chairman of the congressional committee on the temporary swimming pool lift issue, it had Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals written all over it.

3) Asking questions of handicapped friends in wheelchairs, they want nothing to do with it and prefer being labeled "handicapped" as opposed to the radical terminology "disabled".

I think the activists and others who are exploiting the handicapped for their own pecuniary gain are reprehensible, getting in bed with these activists is the same as getting in bed with Occupy activists.

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/letters/ci_25241194/feb-28-letters-editor

² http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_25182397

 

[ICE]

I should have been more clear. Something like U417 is proprietary. There is only one way it can be built. Why provide all the detailing.

So that somebody besides you knows what the wall is supposed to look like.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

I prefer the details.

I also prefer them to be right, but that never happens.

Boilerplate is a terrible thing.

It would also be nice if we could the designers and architects to poke their heads in the attic or crawlspace and see what's actually there, rather than what they think might be there.

But yea, pay the man for good design and details, then you don't have to pay me to scratch my a55 trying to figure out what he meant.

Brent.

 

[jhperez]

I should have been more clear. Something like U417 is proprietary. There is only one way it can be built. Why provide all the detailing.

I respectfully disagree. According to UL, it can be built in 10 different ways with 3 different fire ratings and still meet the listing. Other walls are similar. You should provide the details to make sure it is built and complies with the rating you specified.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=BXUV.U417&ccnshorttitle=Fire-resistance+Ratings+-+ANSI/UL+263&objid=1074563257&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984818&sequence=1

 

[jar546]

I respectfully disagree. According to UL, it can be built in 10 different ways with 3 different fire ratings and still meet the listing. Other walls are similar. You should provide the details to make sure it is built and complies with the rating you specified.http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=BXUV.U417&ccnshorttitle=Fire-resistance+Ratings+-+ANSI/UL+263&objid=1074563257&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984818&sequence=1

Excellent point which is why we normally receive both and ask for both when we only get 1