Laws require enforcement

[mtlogcabin]

Which is the distinction I keep trying to make, don't blame the ADA for some standards you do not agree with.ADA is not a building code, educated building officials and professional understand that.

You are correct and I am guilty as others when I lump ADA into a discussion about CA chosen method of enforcing their accessibility laws or the building codes. However, don't blame building official when you have buildings 23 years later still out of compliance with ADA laws since we are not charged to enforce them.

 

[nitramnaed]

we have a President who is abdicating his responsibly to enforce drug laws that he doesn't like, refusing to enforce portions of his signature health care law because they could cost his party elections, and now legislating environmental laws that are now in front of the Supreme Court.

You mean like Bush II who signed hundreds of signing statements and refused to enforce his own share of laws, e.g. Immigration, torture. Sure but Bush refused to enforce the laws because they were unconstitutional but Obama's are policy based (snark). Right or wrong I'm guessing this has been going on since……..Well maybe Jefferson?

 

[MASSDRIVER]

You mean like Bush II who signed hundreds of signing statements and refused to enforce his own share of laws, e.g. Immigration, torture. Sure but Bush refused to enforce the laws because they were unconstitutional but Obama's are policy based (snark). Right or wrong I'm guessing this has been going on since……..Well maybe Jefferson?

They are of the same ruling class of elitists.

It is very much us against them.

Brent

 

[conarb]

You mean like Bush II who signed hundreds of signing statements and refused to enforce his own share of laws, e.g. Immigration, torture. Sure but Bush refused to enforce the laws because they were unconstitutional but Obama's are policy based (snark). Right or wrong I'm guessing this has been going on since……..Well maybe Jefferson?

As I said before this is not a R vs. D problem they are both doing it, I haven't researched who started it or when it was started (being more interested in Judicial activism) but it is unconstitutional, now we have to see if the court has the guts to stop it, and as I said the court watchers are rating it as 5 to 4 with Kennedy as the swing vote. The fact is that Obama has carried it to an extreme, and sometimes it takes an extreme case to bring it to the courts.

My son has a business partner who was one of the original leaders of the Free Speech movement at Cal Berkeley (jailed and kicked out of school), these people today are basically apolitical seeing one party as bad as the other, they also think that freedoms in this country are all over (in their words) with the revelations of the NAS spying on all Americans, along with spying on people all over the world. They are a lot more paranoid than I, I don't care if they have access to my phone calls, my E-mails, or whether they read this post or not, I just hate paying the taxes so support political agenda, especially lining the pockets of the whores who are exploiting the law to line their own pockets.

 

[mark handler]

I draw the line on moral issues, what is too much in providing access? I as a building official deal with the 20 percent issue all the time.

I do not require full access but I do make them provide the code required access, not more.

I encourage all the naysayers to read the existing access requirements and what is required before trashing all the codes.

Read the provisions in

CBC 202.4

 

[conarb]

I encourage all the naysayers to read the existing access requirements and what is required before trashing all the codes.

That's the real danger to you guys with ever more absurd code requirements, in my cost breakdowns I lump all fees required to obtain a permit into one "Government Fees" line item, right below that I have another line item for "Special Inspections - Paid directly by owner", I want to make damn sure that all my customers know what their government is costing them.

The last home I built (the owner was an engineer) I budgeted $100,000 for Special Inspections, one day he came by and I had the soils engineer, the structural engineer, and two Special Inspectors on site (along with me and 17 tradesmen), after surveying the situation he asked me: "Why do I have to pay for all these layers of inspections, why don't the County inspectors inspect this after you have paid around $100,000 for your permit?" I told him: "Your permit fees just support the County and their Affordable Housing program for the poor, besides inspectors in the United States aren't even required to have welding certifications and many don't even have college degrees" (in our seismic zones there is lots of steel). In fact, the first time I called the field inspector and showed him my 125 page set of plans and shop drawings, he told me: "I am not empowered to inspect anything here, you have to go through the Structural Engineers in Plan Check", I said: "Fine, I'll call you at every inspection point and provide you with copies of Special Inspection Reports, Structural Observations, and all relevant ES Reports along with UL Reports as necessary."

So why do we even need building inspection anymore? I think code minimums are good and we shouldn't trash all the codes, but inspection is unnecessary, make the architects, engineers, and contractors liable if something goes wrong.

 

[mark handler]

And lumping all reglitory "fees" together is a problem.

Some fees are justified, some are not.

Since prop 13 most jurisdiction s have been forced into so called user fees to provide services and amenities the taxes use to provide including water service. Now new builders are forced to add/extend the service.

 

[conarb]

And lumping all reglitory "fees" together is a problem. Some fees are justified, some are not.

Since prop 13 most jurisdiction s have been forced into so called user fees to provide services and amenities the taxes use to provide including water service. Now new builders are forced to add/extend the service.

Mark:

Here in the Bay Area our water districts are not government agencies, I have had to extend mains all my life if they needed extension, the same with sewer districts and electric and gas utilities. You can only charge fees for the actual cost of delivery of services, otherwise it's a tax requiring a vote of 2/3 of the electorate. That's why cities and counties have been incorporating the unfunded affordable housing mandate within the building departments, that way they can lump the costs of providing access to affordable housing along with administration of the program, that's also why I have to stand in line behind the poor when they are getting something for nothing when I am paying huge amounts of money to fund their housing, people building expensive housing paying for people getting free or low cost housing, again redistribution of wealth, wealth is a function of intelligence, and with a dramatic fall in intelligence in this country the problem is only going to get worse. From each according to his ability to each according to his needs. Didn't we fight wars to prevent this from ever happening here?

 

[JBI]

Wealth is not a function of intelligence and hasn't been in my lifetime.

 

[mjesse]

So why do we even need building inspection anymore? I think code minimums are good and we shouldn't trash all the codes, but inspection is unnecessary, make the architects, engineers, and contractors liable if something goes wrong.

FWIW, I don't completely disagree with you, but...

When things inevitably "go wrong", the architects engineers, and contractors that should be held liable, just file for bankruptcy and dissolve their corporations. {POOF} That is, if their corporation or LLC has even survived after the final C of O was issued.

Municipalities will usually outlive the "responsible parties" as well as the property owners. Therefor, the oversight and involvement of said municipality can be beneficial in assuring projects are completed to the minimum requirements.

 

[mjesse]

Wealth is not a function of intelligence and hasn't been in my lifetime.

One needs only to look at the entertainment industry for proof of this.

 

[steveray]

The EOR and special inspector missed this broken truss......Do we need inspectors?



Apparently the EOR and SI think this is OK....Do we need inspectors?



And I have hundreds of pics from the same project and others...Maybe the inspectors are that much better here? Maybe the other professionals are that much worse?

 

[JBI]

One needs only to look at the entertainment industry for proof of this.

Or the financial industry, corporate management or political industry?

 

[jar546]

That's the real danger to you guys with ever more absurd code requirements, in my cost breakdowns I lump all fees required to obtain a permit into one "Government Fees" line item, right below that I have another line item for "Special Inspections - Paid directly by owner", I want to make damn sure that all my customers know what their government is costing them. The last home I built (the owner was an engineer) I budgeted $100,000 for Special Inspections, one day he came by and I had the soils engineer, the structural engineer, and two Special Inspectors on site (along with me and 17 tradesmen), after surveying the situation he asked me: "Why do I have to pay for all these layers of inspections, why don't the County inspectors inspect this after you have paid around $100,000 for your permit?" I told him: "Your permit fees just support the County and their Affordable Housing program for the poor, besides inspectors in the United States aren't even required to have welding certifications and many don't even have college degrees" (in our seismic zones there is lots of steel). In fact, the first time I called the field inspector and showed him my 125 page set of plans and shop drawings, he told me: "I am not empowered to inspect anything here, you have to go through the Structural Engineers in Plan Check", I said: "Fine, I'll call you at every inspection point and provide you with copies of Special Inspection Reports, Structural Observations, and all relevant ES Reports along with UL Reports as necessary."

So why do we even need building inspection anymore? I think code minimums are good and we shouldn't trash all the codes, but inspection is unnecessary, make the architects, engineers, and contractors liable if something goes wrong.

"…home I built…" I assume it is impossible in that jurisdiction to build a home prescriptively without the need for special inspections? Or did the owner ELECT to build a complicated, expensive home outside of the prescriptive methods?

In regards to the statement about the need for building inspections. Simply an absurd question. I can base this on the high percentage of failed inspections and litigation over construction defects, not to mention injuries.

 

[ICE]

Or the financial industry, corporate management or political industry?

Let's not forget professional sports. You can be dumb as a stump and make millions if you can hit a baseball.

 

[mtlogcabin]

I draw the line on moral issues

Who determines what is moral?

In regards to the statement about the need for building inspections. Simply an absurd question. I can base this on the high percentage of failed inspections and litigation over construction defects, not to mention injuries.

I remember your post and pictures before you crossed over to the dark side that showed a lot of "approved" installations by the local AHJ's that where definitely non-compliant.

The truth is we need to always be learning and improving our knowledge and skills as plan reviewers and inspectors and continually passing that on to the tradesman in the field.

 

[conarb]

Everybody competes in this world, that's the basis of evolution, survival of the fittest, our universities compete for the best and the brightest because they compete for the highest endowments, smarter people make more money and donate more to their alma maters, Stanford has been competing with Harvard since Harvard has a 255 year head start in getting wealthy legacies, Stanford has used the Stanford Binet to find the brightest and last year tripled Harvard in donations. In fact Harvard has slipped so far they give everybody straight A-s, in my day every school, even the lower class state schools, graded on the curve flunking out 33%, now we have kids graduating from high school with 4.0+ GPAs, the ETS has lowered the bar so far that both Stanford and Harvard had more 2,400 SATs than admission slots, yet Stanford only admitted 69% with perfect SATs in order to meet their diversity goals.

As to intelligence and income read the December issue of Psychology Today

 

[Codegeek]

They are a lot more paranoid than I, I don't care if they have access to my phone calls, my E-mails, or whether they read this post or not, I just hate paying the taxes so support political agenda, especially lining the pockets of the whores who are exploiting the law to line their own pockets.

Amen to that! Why is it we have a career politicians? What happened to serving our country to truly represent the American public rather than someone's personal agenda or the agenda of the ones lining their pocketbook? Don't get me started...

 

[mark handler]

Who determines what is moral?

And that is a major problem with the world today. We no longer teach our children that.

Many cross the "what is right"-line, all the time.

That's why we, in CA, have a business and professions code, and fair political practices act. Both of which cause me to fill out conflict of interest documents.

It is just a reminder....

 

[conarb]

"…home I built…" I assume it is impossible in that jurisdiction to build a home prescriptively without the need for special inspections? Or did the owner ELECT to build a complicated, expensive home outside of the prescriptive methods?

With our seismic codes it's impossible to build to the prescriptive code, the structural engineers have been trying for years to require engineering on everything built, the date was supposed to be 2011 to coincide with the 200th anniversary of the New Madrid Quake, in my opinion it got derailed by all of the money in the environmental industry pushing the Energy and Green codes, my understanding is that the tough seismic codes should be nationwide within the next few code cycles. A former carpenter of mine does an excellent job of documenting his work, here is what started out as a simple addition and ended up looking like a simple addition, here is a new home, framing inspection lasted 7 days on that home, he asked me to be there one of those days and the inspector made him pull nails all over the place to measure and mic the nails, actually the inspectors are challenging the structural engineers more than us contractors now. I suggest you guys look through those files and see what's coming to even the most backward of communities that don't even have codes now (or recently adopted them).

I was having problems with a plan checker and she said she was busy on the Bing Concert Hall, I told here that Peter Bing was a classmate of mine, she asked how he made all of his money, I told here that his father and uncle came over from Hungary as penniless Jews after the First World War, they build large complexes in New York City before there were any codes, those buildings are still standing, her comment was: "They don't need codes in New York City, they don't have earthquakes there". Later she told me that the house I was permitting should have been all steel, she asked: "Do you know how many trees are going to die for you to build this house?"

Frankly I think if we are going to have to build to the cold country energy standards they should have to build to our seismic standards.

 

[Frank]

A former carpenter of mine does an excellent job of documenting his work, here is what started out as a simple addition and ended up looking like a simple addition, here is a new home, framing inspection lasted 7 days on that home, he asked me to be there one of those days and the inspector made him pull nails all over the place to measure and mic the nails, actually the inspectors are challenging the structural engineers more than us contractors now.Later she told me that the house I was permitting should have been all steel, she asked: "Do you know how many trees are going to die for you to build this house?"

Those resemble a simple addition and basic new home about as much as a Ferrari resembles a go cart--they both have 4 wheels and an engine. Both are monuments to designers seeing how complicated they can make things and still get the client to pay for them. Or like the Ferrari they are works of art that also provide some practical use.

With respect to building out of steel vs wood--I think she misses the mark as wood is a renewable and steel is not. She is also missing the energy inputs into the steel.

 

[jar546]

I remember your post and pictures before you crossed over to the dark side that showed a lot of "approved" installations by the local AHJ's that where definitely non-compliant.

The truth is we need to always be learning and improving our knowledge and skills as plan reviewers and inspectors and continually passing that on to the tradesman in the field.

It is absolutely true that there are many things overlooked by inspectors intentionally and unintentionally. That is no basis to say that inspectors are not needed whatsoever. Neither contractors nor RDP's are perfect and neither are we but we are another level to ensure compliance. Read my statement again. I am talking about all of the failed inspections out there that would have otherwise gone unnoticed.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Jar

I meant it as a compliment to you and as a response to conarbs statement about is it neccessary to have different inspectors. Yes, because knowledge, training and pride in your work produces good results. Those you are just there to "inspect" and collect the paycheck are a detriment to the profession whether private or government employed.

 

[conarb]

Those resemble a simple addition and basic new home about as much as a Ferrari resembles a go cart--they both have 4 wheels and an engine. Both are monuments to designers seeing how complicated they can make things and still get the client to pay for them. Or like the Ferrari they are works of art that also provide some practical use.With respect to building out of steel vs wood--I think she misses the mark as wood is a renewable and steel is not. She is also missing the energy inputs into the steel.

Frank:

That is what is required here, the new home required $30,000 worth of Simpson metal and still had $30,000 worth or red iron moment frames, I'd speculate that the $30,000 worth of Simpson cost double that (at our rates) to install, that's why I went to all steel structures, that also gave me walls of glass since there was no need to diaphragm, and eliminate sealing up walls causing dryrot. Nobody wanted all that structure other than the AHJ, the structural engineers had to design to the cities' approvals, and as it is the city inspectors keep challenging the structural engineers. In my case I had the house designed with a German engineering program, the plan checker didn't have that program and made me bring my engineer down and animate the forces on his laptop, she made him apply seismic loads from 4 directions when he had only done two, she then made him apply wind loads from 4 directions when he had only done 2, then she made him animate seismic and wind loads concurrently from all four directions requiring 16 modelings. Very interesting to watch the animated loads to failure. BTW, all designs here are to FEMA standards, during arguments between the County SE and my SE he was constantly opening up his FEMA book to justify his designs.

We had a case here in Atherton, the house was supposed to cost $6 million and with all the city's requirements it cost $13 million, the owner sued the architect, several engineers, the contractor, and the city, the basis of the action against the city is that the city inspector drove the cost sky high and he didn't even have a college degree, he had enrolled in a junior college but there was no evidence of his ever graduating. I don't know how it turned out which means it settled with everybody kicking in some money, so the $7 million in over costs were probably split between all defendants.