Light duty ovens without a hood

[cda]

This morning I requested the specifications on the hood with the caution that in all likelihood we would want a type II hood over them so we'll see what happens.

Do the plans show the oven?? Do they show the location of the oven??

 

[Sifu]

yes, says "oven" with a number reference for the schedule which says "owner supplied".

 

[cda]

yes, says "oven" with a number reference for the schedule which says "owner supplied".

Are there any other cooking appliances in the space???

Is the oven shown next to them?

Is there a vent a hood indicated on the plans

 

[zigmark]

For the sake of educational purposes I strongly suggest you contact UL regarding the light duty exception per the test requirements of UL 720B. Surprisingly, when recently researching this issue I was fortunate enough to get the author of this portion of UL 720B on the line. After hearing his description of how the test was performed I had a change of opinion about that allowance/requirement. Here is the short version of the test procedure;

Set appliance at its' highest possible temperature setting. Insert "chicken". Wait the test determined amount of time (2-hours I believe). If the testing capture system does not detect the prescribed amount of smoke or grease then a Type II hood is sufficient. Otherwise a Type I hood is required.

Talking with UL the general impression was that most electric ovens that are capable of cooking food products over 250 degrees (I believe that was the temp. it was relatively low but I'm not in my office) fail this test. UL's description of appliances that passed the test were the countertop type warming devices and that this standard was implemented to address that specifically.

Regardless of what "we have always seen or required" the industry is moving toward requiring Type I hoods over more types of appliances, right , wrong or indifferent. The push for this according to UL was from the industry/manufacturers and not the regulation side which I found interesting.

I would strongly encourage you to contact UL and ask about that standard and test procedure, it is educational if nothing else.

ZIG

 

[cda]

"""Set appliance at its' highest possible temperature setting. Insert "chicken". Wait the test determined amount of time (2-hours I believe). ""

Guess it will be blowing ashes by than

 

[zigmark]

I agree, and certainly will have produced smoke even outside the oven.... but heck even my wife has accomplished this a time or two. I was a little shocked after hearing this from UL.

ZIG

 

[cda]

Exception: A Type I hood shall not be required for an electric cooking appliance where an approved testing agency provides documentation that the appliance effluent contains 5 mg/m3 or less of grease when tested at an exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm (0.236 m3/s) in accordance with Section 17 of UL 710B

710 b applies to :::

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UL 710B

Standard for Recirculating Systems

Ed. Number:2

Ed. Date:09/2/2011

Type:ULSTD

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ScopeTable of Contents

1.1 These requirements cover the following recirculating systems rated 600 volts or less and intended for indoor use:

a) Non-integral recirculating systems for installation in commercial establishments for the preparation of food;

b) Electric commercial cooking appliances provided with integral recirculating systems intended for installation in commercial establishments for the preparation of food; and

c) Vending machines provided with integral recirculating systems.

1.2 These devices incorporate an air filtering system enclosed in a hooded or otherwise contained area intended to capture air from the cooking process area. The hood assembly typically includes a fan, collection hood, or equivalent design and an air filtering system (consisting of a grease filter with or without other filtering means). In addition, except as noted in the Exceptions to 37.1 and 38.1, the hood assembly includes a fire actuated damper, and a fire extinguishing system.

1.3 Recirculating systems covered by these requirements are intended for installation in accordance with:

a) The Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations, NFPA 96;

b) The National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70; and

c) Other codes such as the International Mechanical Code (IMC), and the Uniform Mechanical Code (UMC).

1.4 Integral recirculating systems shall comply with the requirements for the cooking appliance as noted below, except as modified or superseded by the requirements in this Standard.

a) Commercial electric cooking appliances shall comply with the requirements in the Standard for Commercial Electric Cooking Appliances, UL 197.

b) Vending machines shall comply with the requirements in the Standard for Vending Machines, UL 751.

Details

Edition Number:2

Edition Date:09/02/2011

Price Code:C

Type:ULSTD

ANSI Approved:08/13/2014

DOD Approved:N/A

Referenced Standards

UL 33 »

UL 44 »

UL 48 »

UL 62 »

UL 67 »

UL 83 »

UL 94 »

UL 157 »

UL 197 »

UL 199 »

UL 224 »

UL 248-1 »

UL 248-4 »

UL 248-5 »

UL 248-6 »

UL 248-7 »

UL 248-8 »

UL 248-9 »

UL 248-10 »

UL 248-11 »

UL 248-12 »

UL 248-14 »

UL 248-15 »

UL 300 »

UL 310 »

UL 353 »

UL 486A-486B »

UL 486C »

UL 489 »

UL 496 »

UL 498 »

UL 506 »

UL 508 »

UL 510 »

UL 555 »

UL 635 »

UL 723 »

UL 746A »

UL 746B »

UL 746C »

UL 746D »

UL 751 »

UL 758 »

UL 796 »

UL 810 »

UL 817 »

UL 840 »

UL 867 »

UL 873 »

UL 900 »

UL 917 »

UL 943 »

UL 969 »

UL 991 »

UL 1004-1 »

UL 1030 »

UL 1046 »

UL 1059 »

UL 1077 »

UL 1254 »

UL 1310 »

UL 1411 »

UL 1414 »

UL 1434 »

UL 1446 »

UL 1449 »

UL 1557 »

UL 1577 »

UL 1598 »

UL 1642 »

UL 1978 »

UL 1998 »

UL 2111 »

UL 2161 »

UL 4248-1 »

UL 5083-3 »

UL 5085-1 »

UL 5085-3 »

UL 60691 »

UL 60730-1 »

UL 60947-1 »

UL 60947-4-1A »

UL 60947-5-2 »

UL 60950-1 »

UL 61131-2 »

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[cda]

For the sake of educational purposes I strongly suggest you contact UL regarding the light duty exception per the test requirements of UL 720B. Surprisingly, when recently researching this issue I was fortunate enough to get the author of this portion of UL 720B on the line. After hearing his description of how the test was performed I had a change of opinion about that allowance/requirement. Here is the short version of the test procedure;Set appliance at its' highest possible temperature setting. Insert "chicken". Wait the test determined amount of time (2-hours I believe). If the testing capture system does not detect the prescribed amount of smoke or grease then a Type II hood is sufficient. Otherwise a Type I hood is required.

Talking with UL the general impression was that most electric ovens that are capable of cooking food products over 250 degrees (I believe that was the temp. it was relatively low but I'm not in my office) fail this test. UL's description of appliances that passed the test were the countertop type warming devices and that this standard was implemented to address that specifically.

Regardless of what "we have always seen or required" the industry is moving toward requiring Type I hoods over more types of appliances, right , wrong or indifferent. The push for this according to UL was from the industry/manufacturers and not the regulation side which I found interesting.

I would strongly encourage you to contact UL and ask about that standard and test procedure, it is educational if nothing else.

ZIG

Ul 720 b wrong ul???

 

[mtlogcabin]

The only reference I have found is to the oven with a schedule of appliances which indicates an owner supplied oven.

And therein is the problem. A design professional not following through with the owner to determine what is needed or will be used for a project. Happens all the time.

 

[zigmark]

Ul 720 b wrong ul???

YUP typo... again not at my desk.

710B

ZIG

 

[rgrace]

For the sake of educational purposes I strongly suggest you contact UL regarding the light duty exception per the test requirements of UL 720B. Surprisingly, when recently researching this issue I was fortunate enough to get the author of this portion of UL 720B on the line. After hearing his description of how the test was performed I had a change of opinion about that allowance/requirement. Here is the short version of the test procedure;Set appliance at its' highest possible temperature setting. Insert "chicken". Wait the test determined amount of time (2-hours I believe). If the testing capture system does not detect the prescribed amount of smoke or grease then a Type II hood is sufficient. Otherwise a Type I hood is required.

Talking with UL the general impression was that most electric ovens that are capable of cooking food products over 250 degrees (I believe that was the temp. it was relatively low but I'm not in my office) fail this test. UL's description of appliances that passed the test were the countertop type warming devices and that this standard was implemented to address that specifically.

Regardless of what "we have always seen or required" the industry is moving toward requiring Type I hoods over more types of appliances, right , wrong or indifferent. The push for this according to UL was from the industry/manufacturers and not the regulation side which I found interesting.

I would strongly encourage you to contact UL and ask about that standard and test procedure, it is educational if nothing else.

ZIG

Zig, I'm sorry, I'm confused. What code section is your post referring (UL 710B) to; 507.1, Exception 2 or 507.2.1, Exception?

 

[cda]

Zig, I'm sorry, I'm confused. What code section is your post referring (UL 710B) to; 507.1, Exception 2 or 507.2.1, Exception?

507.2.1 Type I hoods.

Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.

Exception: A Type I hood shall not be required for an electric cooking appliance where an approved testing agency provides documentation that the appliance effluent contains 5 mg/m3 or less of grease when tested at an exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm (0.236 m3/s) in accordance with Section 17 of UL 710B

BUT. you need to read the scope of 710B

 

[cda]

Zig, I'm sorry, I'm confused. What code section is your post referring (UL 710B) to; 507.1, Exception 2 or 507.2.1, Exception?

Are there any other cooking appliances in the space???

Is the oven shown next to them?

Is there a vent a hood indicated on the plans

 

[Sifu]

There are other cooking appliances. Four gas cook-tops under 4 type 1 canopy hoods, two hoods per fan. I received specs for the ovens along with an email from the mfr to the owner stating that the mfr doesn't require ventilation. I responded with the relevant code sections and my conclusion to require a type II hood. I am sure the other shoe will fall next week.

 

[cda]

So they are supplying hoods already, but do not bother to place the oven under it. Ok

Yep just keep telling them IMC overrules manufacture, most of the time!!!!