Dr. J
Silver Member
So, GB, you would require a private (therfore subject to local building code) defense contractor with a perimeter security fence to buzz through anyone just so they can use the toilet?
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Silly hypothetical.Dr. J said:So, GB, you would require a private (therfore subject to local building code) defense contractor with a perimeter security fence to buzz through anyone just so they can use the toilet?
International Plumbing Codeimhotep said:Focus? OK What code governs this decision? Local or state amendments? I can see nothing in the IBC or IPC that would allow an AHJ to proscribe unfettered access to a restroom. Egress from a restroom yes, access no.
I got that. Where is the provision that requires free access?mark handler said:International Plumbing Code403.3 Required public toilet facilities. Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization. The number of plumbing fixtures located within the required toilet facilities shall be provided in accordance with Section 403 for all users. Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in all occupancies. Employee toilet facilities shall be either separate or combined employee and public toilet facilities.
I knew you would find a pic!mark handler said:
My answer: I can't find a code section that prohibits equipping a toilet room with a locking device to control access.Where public toilet facilities are required, does anyone out there allow the door to the toilet room to be equipped with a locking device on the outside, preventing access to the room based on security (shoplifting) concerns? If not, code section(s) please.
2009 IPC - PUBLIC OR PUBLIC UTILIZATION. In the classification of plumbing fixtures, “public” applies to fixtures in general toilet rooms of schools, gymnasiums, hotels, airports, bus and railroad stations, public buildings, bars, public comfort stations, office buildings, stadiums, stores, restaurants and other installations where a number of fixtures are installed so that their utilization is similarly unrestricted.Mac said:The Building & Plumbing codes require the facilities & fixtures. The Property Maintenance code requires them to be maintained. I don't see anything that requires the owner/operator to allow free access to them. Did I miss it?
I understand the point, but can't help observe that you don't reference a code section that deals with the question. I can't find one.gbhammer said:Health safety is just as important as life safety. In an egress situation with a locked door a constantly attended station is required, because people could die quickly if not allowed to exit.
In health safety some one is not going to die quickly, however there can be long term consequences to the type of accident that might occur when a person is in desperate need of a toilet and then tries to find a key in a 30,000 square foot mercantile.
this is the code sectionimhotep said:I understand the point, but can't help observe that you don't reference a code section that deals with the question. I can't find one.
So what answers the OP question? It appears a judicious application of the common language definition of 'unrestricted' is the final answer. If the permit applicant wants to provide false statements in order to construct a setup with restricted access to public plumbing facilities then that is on them.gbhammer said:I asked a similar question in the #8 post on this thread.During the course of the thread I have come to the conclusion that if they are allowed to lock the door in the first place then the AHJ will have trouble enforcing a requirement for a constant attendant.
If there is going to be an attendant then why lock the doors at all, someone can watch people enter and leave the restrooms. Shoplifting problem solved.
What I have observed [ typically, not completely in every situation ], is that some stores/ businessess will not address directly the issue of stock shrinkage [ aka - shoplifting ],"I take the point. So can a shopkeeper have an attendant who requires patrons to place merchandisein a storage cubicle prior to 'buzzing' them into a toilet room?"