Maximum number of disconnecting means

[Sifu]

I have a proposal for 2 stand-alone toilet buildings and a gazebo. The service is on the first toilet building and feeds the other and the gazebo with branch circuits. My understanding is that this is permitted if documented safe switching procedures are established (Tell me if I'm wrong). However, the panel has more than 6 disconnects for all the buildings. Is this acceptable? The panel has a 100a main disconnect to shut down all the structures.

 

[steveray]

Each building will likely need it's own disco (and grounding system), but I will let JAR or ICE tee off on that one....Out buildings are super limited on branch circuit feeding, like one or less if I am not mistaken...

 

[Sifu]

This is a single disco feeding one other small building and a gazebo. 10 OCD in the panel plus the main.

 

[steveray]

Single disco/ single circuit?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Services cannot have more than 6 disconnects but this is not a service. Nothing in code about how many disconnects for each building on a feeder.
Code says only one feeder allowed each other buildings with a disconnect which is probably in the panel that the feeder is coming from.

 

[ICE]

Are you sure that the first toilet building is supplied by a service and not a feeder from some other building? Each structure has to have a disconnect with up to six switches/breakers serving as the disconnect. That disconnect will be on the separate structure. The grounding has rules that the licensed electrician will be intimately familiar with.

Soon, California will adopt a new electrical code. That code will not allow six switches/breakers serving as the disconnect in a single enclosure.

 

[ICE]

if I am not mistaken

You are .....sort of. There is a section of electrical code regarding the number of supplies which restricts that to one with exceptions. Branch circuits are not limited once the supply (feeder) hits the structure. If a single branch circuit (not a feeder) supplies the structure, a grounding electrode system is not required. (a multi-wire branch circuit is considered one circuit for the purposes of that rule) That single branch circuit still requires a disconnect.

 

[steveray]

Well said...Pretty much what I thought, but I knew they throttled that back recently....And I am dumb enough and smart enough not to give off the cuff electrical answers....

 

[Sifu]

As you can tell, this is not my cup of tea. Per the one-line, the first building is supplied directly from a transformer with the meter at that location. This has always confused me a bit when considering whether the conductors are feeders or not. I have the same set up at my own house. Technically, from the service point (transformer) to the meter (as the first point of disconnect) would be the service conductors, which then feeds my main panel 200' away. That would leave about a 4' service entrance conductor and then 200' feeders to the main panel. This building is the same set-up (not the same distances). So would this be considered a service, or as being supplied by feeders? It feels like a service, but by definition may be a feeder??

 

[Paul Sweet]

The service would be the first panel (or fused disconnect) after the meter. The NEC doesn't require a disconnect for subpanels, such as the ones in the outbuildings. It is good practice to provide main breakers in outbuilding panels so an electrician can do work in the panel without it being live.

 

[steveray]

At your house.... typically.....everything after the first disconnect (that is not a branch circuit) is a feeder....Of course now in 2020 we need an "emergency disco" which does not have to be the service disco.... which muddies the crap out of everything...

Feeder.
All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device. (CMP-10)

 

[Sifu]

The service would be the first panel (or fused disconnect) after the meter. The NEC doesn't require a disconnect for subpanels, such as the ones in the outbuildings. It is good practice to provide main breakers in outbuilding panels so an electrician can do work in the panel without it being live.

There are no sub-panels in the outbuildings per the one-line, that is kind of my issue. There is no way to disconnect the two other structures except from the first building. I think this is permitted with safe switching procedures, but then the first (only) service will require more than 6 throws to turn power off at all the structures, that is where I think I may be misunderstanding and y question lies.

 

[ICE]

You guys need an electrician.

 

[Sifu]

You guys need an electrician.

This is an exercise for me. An electrician will will analyze this. I am only trying to understand what is going on because it looks odd.

 

[Sifu]

but then the first (only) service will require more than 6 throws to turn power off at all the structures, that is where I think I may be misunderstanding and y question lies.

Let me amend this statement. There is, as mentioned, a main disco at the service, which disconnects all structures. So a single throw disconnects all structures.