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Missing Ground Wire - Large Commercial Lighting Project - Exterior / Industrial

Discussion in 'Electrical Codes' started by ElectroMan1985, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. ElectroMan1985

    ElectroMan1985 Registered User

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    We are working on a very large exterior lighting conversation at an industrial site. Replacing 400W + 1000W HID fixtures w/ new LEDs. The problem is, the existing 40FT+ wood poles don't have an existing ground wire. To add a ground to these poles would require very expensive and complicated infrastructure upgrade and would not be approved.

    Question: Is this a circumstance where the functioning/existing electrical infrastructure that does not have a ground wire can be 'grandfathered' in with the new LED lights or does it require a complete upgrade to the lighting system?

    Any specific NEC code you could point us to?
     
    #1 ElectroMan1985, Jul 12, 2019
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Welcome
     
    #2 cda, Jul 12, 2019
  3. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Are you working with a city building electrical dept,

    That requires permits and inspections ?
     
    #3 cda, Jul 12, 2019
  4. ElectroMan1985

    ElectroMan1985 Registered User

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    No, but we want to do it right / be prepared for if a permit is required and inspection does happen.
     
    #4 ElectroMan1985, Jul 12, 2019
  5. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Not into electrical, give it a few days for some replies,

    Seems like for safety they should be there.

    Sometimes just swapping fixture does require a permit.
     
    #5 cda, Jul 12, 2019
  6. Nearly-Complete

    Nearly-Complete Registered User

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    It requires a permit in my jurisdiction, and it would require grounding. It seems unlikely that adding grounding would be infeasible, but I don’t know all the details of your project.
     
    #6 Nearly-Complete, Jul 13, 2019
  7. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    You can start with NEC 250.4 which basically says you need grounding and bonding. There are times where you just have to upgrade a lighting system or any system to meet current code requirements for safety. There is no excuse for continuing an unsafe system when it it retrofitted with new equipment.
     
    #7 jar546, Jul 13, 2019
    linnrg likes this.
  8. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

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    #8 Mark K, Jul 13, 2019
  9. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    The first link is not relevant to the OP. The first link is about ground rods at light poles, which by the way is not required and a waste of labor and materials.
    The second link is more credible but is overwhelmingly in favor due to the actual code requirements. In the second thread, the engineer admitted he was wrong and they ran new conduit with an equipment ground.

    There is no other code compliant alternative. I wonder if Mark K even read the threads from Mike Holt's forum.
     
    #9 jar546, Jul 13, 2019
  10. linnrg

    linnrg Sawhorse

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    the best thing to happen here is that everyone will look at the differences between bonding and grounding and where each is needed. An equipment grounding conductor is needed for the lighting project. Mike Holt's courses does an excellent job of showing the dangers using ohms law.
     
    #10 linnrg, Jul 16, 2019
    jar546 likes this.
  11. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    The OP says the poles don't have a ground wire....Actually says nothing about the luminaire wiring....Could you clarify?
     
    #11 steveray, Jul 17, 2019 at 8:05 AM
  12. linnrg

    linnrg Sawhorse

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    here is why
     

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    #12 linnrg, Jul 17, 2019 at 3:46 PM
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