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Mixed-use bldg, Condo separation...

G

garrett

Bronze Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
30
California, 2007 CBC

3-story

Type V-A, fully sprinklered

1st Floor includes: Manager Apartment, Communinty Room, and other amenity spaces related to affordable senior apartments that are on the 2nd & 3rd floors above.

Also on 1st floor are four commercial spaces, retail, office, and restaurants.

2nd and 3rd floors have 14 apartments each.

The plan has been permitted, but there is now question from building dept. about the condo plan, which consists of defining a condo association for separate ownership with the entire residential component as one condo, and each of the separate commercial spaces. So, this is a total of 5 condo spaces. The apartments are not condominiums, but the whole group of them are grouped together as one condo.

So, how does this impact the building construction?

Does it require greater fire separations than those prescribed for separation of occupancies?

The walls are not party walls between commercial spaces the way I see it, since this is a single building.

At the floor-ceiling separation between first and second floor there is 1 hour rating, which is what is required based on occupancy separation. I don't know how horizontal separations are dealt with for condos.

Search of CBC gives just 11 matches for "condominium," but all of those instances are related to dwelling unit condos, not the kind of condo we are talking about here. From my understanding this is more of a legal attorney issue with how they describe the ownership of airspaces and the common building assets, but should not really impact the building constuction in any significant way.

Thanks for your input.
 
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As you have already said, it is a legal not building code issue.

Condominium and Apartments are the same in the building code. The only issue in CA has to do with Accessibility, in chapter 11A.
 
So are there condos or is it all apartments???

What is the required separation between b and r???
 
cda said:
(1)So are there condos or is it all apartments??? (2)What is the required separation between b and r???
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(1) Does not matter

(2) Sprinkled (1 hour) or not sprinkled (2 hour) Remember this is CBC 2007, may not need sprinklers
 
Just trying to find out if the places were individually owned or a true apartment building

CBC does not require sprinklers in r or is because of the number of units/ not required
 
Code wise, other than Accessibility, ownership is not a code issue.

2007 CBC does not require sprinklers in all R, based on size or construction type.

2010 CBC, on the otherhand, does require sprinklers in all R
 
The apartments are not condos individually, they are all grouped together as one big condo ownership, among the four other condo units which are all commercial spaces. We are sprinklered, so no need to even try to see if it is possible to not do so. We are good on accessibility per relevant requirements of 11B and 11A for elevator buildings.

Mark is anwswering my question most directly, and as clear as the answer is, ownership is not a code issue, I wish I had a stronger way to make this statement to our building official.
 
cda said:
So are there condos or is it all apartments??? What is the required separation between b and r???
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"Condominium status is a form of ownership, not occupancy." NFPA 101 [2003] A3.3.27.3
 
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Well if you providing required seperation between any r and any b you should be good

Just show the seperation on the plans

But if the b is on the bottom seems like you need seperation horizontally
 
Thanks for the NFPA section. Having code sections to refer to is my goal.

There is a 1-Hr floor - ceiling assembly between the B and R.

And technically there is no separation required between the B's, we have provided 1-Hr walls between them.

Of course ever apartment unit is separated from other dwellings and corridor by 1-Hr too.
 
Oh, I was saying no separation required between two spaces that are both B occupancy.

But I see that I was not clear.
 
So sounds like it should fly

Is the building dept giving you code sections that they site saying not in compliance???
 
No, the bldg official just says he is not sure, No code section bombs discovered yet.

So he wants to send it out to a private plan check company that he had do the original plan check.

At that time they did not have the condo plan as part of the project, but all the 1-Hr ratings were

In place on the permitted drawings.

The building is under const. now, starting roof framing.
 
Okay, Bldg Offical has called off his escapades. Perhaps he reads this forum.

It was only his desire to get it right that he started this in the first place.

We are lucky to have him, and that is not just because he might be reading this.

Thanks everyone.
 
He felt the mighty force of the """BCF""" getting ready to come down on him

but at least he is trying to get it right
 
gbhammer said:
I want one.
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Oh yeah, and the shirts should have all the cool avatars on them, like fatboy jpranch yankee mark handler even brudgers for the scare factor.
 
gbhammer said:
Oh yeah, and the shirts should have all the cool avatars on them, like fatboy jpranch yankee mark handler even brudgers for the scare factor.
Click to expand...
Kinda' like the X-men...
 
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