• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Multi-story decorative stairs code requirements

  • Thread starter Thread starter YonLL
  • Start date Start date
  • Featured
bill1952 said:
So you are maintaing a building is not required to have a means of egress from a stair? And a stair which is not needed to comply with the MOE requirements can be any length despite travel distance and common path of travel requirements? You can add a stair of any design in a building that otherwise complies with the code, because the stair can't be considered occupied?
Click to expand...
I am claiming that a stair IS a MOE from an occupiable space....It is not an occupiable space itself....And yes....An EXIT stair has no CPET or TD requirements...
 
1011.1 General. Stairways serving occupied portions of a building shall comply with the requirements of Sections 1011.2 through 1011.13. Alternating tread devices shall comply with Section 1011.14. Ship’s ladders shall comply with Section 1011.15. Ladders shall comply with Section 1011.16.

There is no mention of egress.
 
bill1952 said:
If a portion of the stair can be occupied - meaning and occupant can use them - the rest of the stair is a required means of egress.
Click to expand...
That's really not the intended topic of this question, but surely you can have stairs that are not a component of the required means of egress. A good example would be spiral stairs -- can't be used for egress in many situations, but can be added to the project for aesthetics.
 
YonLL said:
That's really not the intended topic of this question, but surely you can have stairs that are not a component of the required means of egress. A good example would be spiral stairs -- can't be used for egress in many situations, but can be added to the project for aesthetics.
Click to expand...

And see post #11​

1011.10​

Spiral stairways are permitted to be used as a component in the means of egress only within dwelling units or from a space not more than 250 square feet (23 m2) in area and serving not more than five occupants, or from technical production areas in accordance with Section 410.5.

A spiral stairway shall have a 63/4-inch (171 mm) minimum clear tread depth at a point 12 inches (305 mm) from the narrow edge. The risers shall be sufficient to provide a headroom of 78 inches (1981 mm) minimum, but riser height shall not be more than 91/2 inches (241 mm). The minimum stairway clear width at and below the handrail shall be 26 inches (660 mm).
 
YonLL said:
the intended topic of this question
Click to expand...
I reckon that the intended topic was a question of whether “decorative” stairs are required to meet a code. The second post should have said yes, and that would be the end of it.
 
steveray said:

And see post #11​

1011.10​

Spiral stairways are permitted to be used as a component in the means of egress only within dwelling units or from a space not more than 250 square feet (23 m2) in area and serving not more than five occupants, or from technical production areas in accordance with Section 410.5.

A spiral stairway shall have a 63/4-inch (171 mm) minimum clear tread depth at a point 12 inches (305 mm) from the narrow edge. The risers shall be sufficient to provide a headroom of 78 inches (1981 mm) minimum, but riser height shall not be more than 91/2 inches (241 mm). The minimum stairway clear width at and below the handrail shall be 26 inches (660 mm).
Click to expand...
Right, I don't disagree that you should follow this part of the code. What I was saying was that you can still have such stairs without it being part of the required means of egress, and in some cases, you can't, such as what is being stated in this paragraph you quoted.
 
steveray said:
I just want to be clear...Even if it is a "non-MOE stair" it still needs to meet stair requirements 1011.2 through 1011.13.....Unless you can argue it does not serve the building in any way.....
Click to expand...
1011.1 General. Stairways serving occupied portions of a building shall comply with the requirements of Sections 1011.2 through 1011.13.

Serving occupied portions is different than "serve the building in any way....."
 
Last edited:
ICE said:
1011.1 General. Stairways serving occupied portions of a building shall comply with the requirements of Sections 1011.2 through 1011.13.

Serving occupied portions is different than "serve the building in any way.....".
Click to expand...
Barely....Unless they are serving as a decoration and no one is actually expected to use them....
 
steveray said:
Barely....Unless they are serving as a decoration and no one is actually expected to use them....
Click to expand...
Stairs that exist and serve an occupied portion of a building shall comply with the requirements of Sections 1011.2 through 1011.13. Try telling a judge that the aggrieved party fell on a decoration

You, of all all people, understand the word 'shall'. .
 
steveray said:
Barely....Unless they are serving as a decoration and no one is actually expected to use them....
Click to expand...
Right. And therein it becomes a property liability issue, but not a code issue.

For a more radical example - - correct me if I'm wrong - - AFAIK there is nothing in the building code that expressly prohibits an "EXIT" sign being placed over a door that is not an exit. But anyone who did that would either be foolish or willfully or perhaps criminally negligent, a breach of duty of care, and in case of emergency, a "trap" element no different than digging a giant hole in the ground and covering it up with a rug.

But I don't think the enforcing mechanism is the building code. In fact, the building may have been very old, constructed under a code where handrails were not required, in which case it may still be legal.

Is there something in a Uniform Property Code that would enforce conditions deemed an attractive nuisance or trap?
 
I think twice I've been in restaurants with a spiral stair that literally went no where. Maybe up 8 or 10 feet. Don't know if there was a guard at the top or not - presumed there was.

NFPA staff said not allowed but I believe their language doesn't limit egress to the same "occupied" limits of IBC. From anywhere you can be in a building - including top tread of a stair to no where - you have to provide MOE.

Someone mentioned theatrical settings, and I have long tried to convince theatre people - designers and builders - that yes it needs to meet building code. A lot of resistance as you might guess. I can flex on parts visible to audience but the out of view things - stairs in particular - should comply. Arguably actual decorative stairs which do have to function.
 
It has been years since I was in NYC, but at the corner of W65th street and Broadway, in front of Juilliard by the Alice Tully Hall by Lincoln Center stands a concrete stair flight to nowhere with glass guards from the seating area to a point overhead of the sidewalk intersection below.

That corner seems to be under construction now but back in the day when taking 65th across to the east side through the park, while sitting at the light for it to change, I watched many a dancer fall down the steps while doing dumb things.

but to this day, I can't seem to understand architects infatuation with designing non-compliant stairs.

Tried to link the map street view, not working.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top