Multiple Means of Egress - One Exit Blocked

[Mech]

Sorry all I got wayyyyy off base.Went back and read op and finally clicked

New position is

1 look to see if the entire office can exit per code using door 1 and 2. Only

2 if the answer to # 1 is yes, then do not try to exit anyone from the office through the conference room

3 except the people in the conference room and the two rooms on

The conference room side of the doors

4 the conference room still is required two exits, and the door hardware has to meet code, so no card reader to egress the conference room to the office area

My original analysis was

1. All three exits required to meet code. Occupant Load > 500. Exit 3 serves the existing conference room and cannot handle that entire room occupant load. The remaining occupants must egress to Exit 1 or Exit 2.

2. Do not exit any through the existing conference room exterior door

3. except those in the conference room or 2 rooms on conference room side of doors.

4. Double door hardware cannot require card reader to egress conf. room to office area.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly...are you asking if people can travel through the existing conference room to get to Exit 3? Exit 3 can serve the existing conference room, but in addition to the door swing issue on the door leading to that conference room, the door is locked on the office side, correct?

The doors are locked on the office side. Exit 3 only serves the existing conference room. Per code, the conf. room OL = 221 and Exit 3 door capacity = 160. Even if there is no lock on the door and one door swings into the conference room from the office, Exit 3 is still maxed out by the conference room OL alone.

Can Exit 3 be used to determine if 50% egress capacity exists if either Exit 1 or Exit 2 is blocked? I am thinking yes. The doors are locked, but Exit 3 is still available to those in the conference room.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Assembly areas are based on the net floor area not gross. 5 sq ft per person is okay for queue areas or concerts but I believe it is excessive for a conference room. 7 sq ft per person would be more likely in a standing room event such as an office party or something similar, This would bring your OL down to 148 which can be handled by one 3'0" door. In reality there will most likely be tables and chairs used in this room

Can Exit 3 be used to determine if 50% egress capacity exists if either Exit 1 or Exit 2 is blocked? I am thinking yes. The doors are locked, but Exit 3 is still available to those in the conference room

NO Exit 3 is limited to the occupants using the conference room at the time an event may happen and it will meet the 50% rule for that space. It is not an exit that is available to all occupants at all times the building is occupied. The building has less than 500 occupants so only two exits are required. Exits 1 & 2 are sized properly to meet the 50% requirement. My questions are the 3'0" door leading to the office space and exit #2 sized properly for the OL leading to exit #2? Will that door be able to be locked?

 

[cda]

I think you need to recalculate the entire buildings occupant load

Because if you need three exits to handle the entire building, then to me door 3 has to be code compliant for the entire building, not just people in that area.

 

[mtlogcabin]

I think you need to recalculate the entire buildings occupant loadBecause if you need three exits to handle the entire building, then to me door 3 has to be code compliant for the entire building, not just people in that area.

Agree 107.2.3 Means of egress.The construction documents shall show in sufficient detail the location, construction, size and character of all portions of the means of egress in compliance with the provisions of this code. In other than occupancies in Groups R-2, R-3, and I-1, the construction documents shall designate the number of occupants to be accommodated on every floor, and in all rooms and spaces.



Yes and do not count all of the occupants in one room using the closest exit.

 

[mark handler]

I also agree with Ron

just a side note, two of the doors show on the drawings do not meet accessibility requirements for doors

 

[Mech]

I think you need to recalculate the entire buildings occupant load

I will recalculate the occupant load using 7 net for the conference rooms.

Lobby Occupant Load Determination - This office area supports an attached 250,000 sf manufacturing building. The waiting area at the upper left of the sketch is 593 sf, including the vestibule, and has limited seating and a small round table or two that you could perform some paperwork at. Would you take this area at 5 sf net, 7 sf net, or something else? I used 5 net, erring on the safe side, and calculated 121 people (including 2 people in the little closet rooms) in the lobby alone.

just a side note, two of the doors show on the drawings do not meet accessibility requirements for doors

I think you are talking about the door at the hallway / lobby and the door at the other end of this hallway. Both of these doors are existing. New doors will meet accessibility requirements.

 

[cda]

I will recalculate the occupant load using 7 net for the conference rooms.Lobby Occupant Load Determination - This office area supports an attached 250,000 sf manufacturing building. The waiting area at the upper left of the sketch is 593 sf, including the vestibule, and has limited seating and a small round table or two that you could perform some paperwork at. Would you take this area at 5 sf net, 7 sf net, or something else? I used 5 net, erring on the safe side, and calculated 121 people (including 2 people in the little closet rooms) in the lobby alone.

I think you are talking about the door at the hallway / lobby and the door at the other end of this hallway. Both of these doors are existing. New doors will meet accessibility requirements.

I hate to say you are killing yourself on your occupant load calcs.

Even myself I am not that tough when reviewing a set of plans.

 

[RLGA]

I agree with cda, don't overdo it on the occupant load calculations. 5sf/occupant is considered "standing room only" like in a theater lobby awaiting entrance into the theater. 7sf/occupant is more reasonable and 15sf/occupant is more realistic (the entire lobby area will not be filled with chairs).

 

[mark handler]

I think you are talking about the door at the hallway / lobby and the door at the other end of this hallway. Both of these doors are existing. New doors will meet accessibility requirements.

Existing or not, the exiting doors do not comply.

One of the doors is in the "new conference room"

 

[Mech]

I missed that new door into the conference room after looking at it dozens of times.

 

[mark handler]

I missed that new door into the conference room after looking at it dozens of times.

That why we are here, to help each other...sometimes we get so focused on one issue and miss others....