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Nail shear strength values

Sifu

Sifu

SAWHORSE
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
3,343
Anyone have a chart for wood to wood shear strength values for nails. I had one I used as a loose guideline for use with table R404.1(1) but I seem to have lost it. I don't have the NDS.
 
years ago, when i was working in the ubc, they were included in the code book. i don't have one either. which leads to me this, brudgers, what the heck is your problem? you answer peoples requests as if you were THE supreme aurthority on codes. you are not. i work for a city building department that has very poor reference library. while it makes my job harder to do, it's really not my individual, personel problem, if they don't want to buy, oh well, i guess i have to do without.i dont get paid enough to buy books for the city, as an "bottom of the rung" posotion. if i had more pull, i'd get more done. the way the department is budgeted is not up to lower eshelon employees to figure out. you sir are extremely abrasive in most of your reponses, and i'm really glad i dont work with you.
 
It is not the employees obligation to have the reference standards but it is the building departments obligation.

In some states it is written into law that the building department must have a copy of the adopted codes. The language in the IBC which I believe is the same as for the IRC is that the reference standards are applicable as if they were in the code. Thus I would suggest that the building department needs to have copies of these reference standards.

In those states where it is not explicitly mandated I would ask how can you require somebody to comply with a regulation that they do not have an opportunity to see. Without these reference standards how can you make the case that a provision in the standards is required?
 
Wow. Thanks for the help Brudgers. Shortest lecture I ever had. Also the most ignorant. I'll let them mayor know you don't approve.
 
Sifu said:
Wow. Thanks for the help Brudgers. Shortest lecture I ever had. Also the most ignorant. I'll let them mayor know you don't approve.
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Just tell him the dog ate your NDS.
 
Sifu

I appreciate that Brudgers is not very sensitive but what is ignorant about what he said? The jurisdiction has an obligation to comply with the law. The fact that compliance costs money and is inconvienient does not excuse their non compliance.
 
Sifu,

I believe from an earlier post of yours you had a copy of the Wood Frame Construction Manual. Table 6A in the supplement section has a table for common & box nail design values for single shear connections.
 
GBrackins said:
Sifu,I believe from an earlier post of yours you had a copy of the Wood Frame Construction Manual. Table 6A in the supplement section has a table for common & box nail design values for single shear connections.
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And here I thought Francis has an amazing memory.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
codeworks said:
years ago, when i was working in the ubc, they were included in the code book. i don't have one either. which leads to me this, brudgers, what the heck is your problem? you answer peoples requests as if you were THE supreme aurthority on codes. you are not. i work for a city building department that has very poor reference library. while it makes my job harder to do, it's really not my individual, personel problem, if they don't want to buy, oh well, i guess i have to do without.i dont get paid enough to buy books for the city, as an "bottom of the rung" posotion. if i had more pull, i'd get more done. the way the department is budgeted is not up to lower eshelon employees to figure out. you sir are extremely abrasive in most of your reponses, and i'm really glad i dont work with you.
Click to expand...
...don't feed the trolls...
 
I'm not on this forum to bicker, I'm here to exchange information but since you asked.

Definition.-Ignorant: lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact.

I believe it is ignorant to presume to know what conditions others are forced to work under, to know what codes have been adopted, to know what the local laws are and to know what limitations have been placed on each individual. The fact is the limits that have been placed under in my jurisdiction do not permit me to purchase or enforce anything but the first 10 chapters of the IRC. I do use other references to aid me in my job, sometimes at risk of disciplinary action and always at my own expense. Furthermore, while I may be wrong and I am sure some will happliy point out if so, I don't believe the NDS is a mandated reference in the IRC. Even if it is it wouldn't alter the fact that I don't have it and am seeking aid and/or guidance from someone who might. Undoubtedly some do, and they can choose to share it or not and some don't and they might also benefit from that aid. The insensitivity really doesn't bother me, some folks are just different and I usually stay away from them if I can. And Brudgers you are absolutely correct, what I get paid makes me a complete amateur.
 
GB, thanks for the tip. I never knew that table was in there.
 
Sifu said:
Anyone have a chart for wood to wood shear strength values for nails. I had one I used as a loose guideline for use with table R404.1(1) but I seem to have lost it. I don't have the NDS.
Click to expand...
Sifu

Why do you need a shear strength value chart for nails when using Table R404.1(1)?

The code requires 3-8d per joist per table R602.3(1)

b. Prescriptive Support Requirements:

Type Joist/blocking Attachment Requirement

A 3-8d per joist per Table R602.3(1).

B 1-20 gage angle clip each joist with 5-8d per leg.

C 1-¼-inch thick steel angle. Horizontal leg attached to sill bolt adjacent to joist/blocking, vertical leg attached to joist/blocking with 1/2-inch minimum diameter bolt.

D 2-¼-inch thick steel, angles, one on each side of joist/blocking. Attach each angle to adjacent sill bolt through horizontal leg. Bolt to joist/blocking with ½-inch minimum diameter bolt common to both angles.

Table R602.3(1)

Joist to sill or girder, toe nail 3-8d (2-½" ´ 0.113")

a. All nails are smooth-common, box or deformed shanks except where otherwise stated. Nails used for framing and sheathing connections shall have minimum average bending yield strengths as shown: 80 ksi for shank diameter of 0.192 inch (20d common nail), 90 ksi for shank diameters larger than 0.142 inch but not larger than 0.177 inch, and 100 ksi for shank diameters of 0.142 inch or less.

If they are not following the prescriptive path of the code and using smaller fasteners than required then it is a designed system and the designer should be providing the fastener details using the NDS as permitted by section R602.3. It is not our jobs to be providing fastener sizes.

How do you verify a design is correct? Have them provide the calculations/documentation they used.

That might be a simple copy of a chart or page out of the referenced standard.

You do not have to have all the referenced standards in your building department library. That is cost prohibitive for most jurisdictions. A lot of the codes reference to a standard is specific to one section of the entire standard that you may never use in your jurisdiction.

Example ALI ALCTV-2006 is only applicable for construction in a flood hazard area.

espcially as some design manual to
 
It is my understanding that in table 404.4(1) you have the option of using the letter designator for a prescriptive connection or a connection that will give a connection equivalent to the pounds listed in the table. I get into this table when encountering a basement wall with unbalanced fill where I don't believe table 602.3(1) would apply.
 
I guess you would have to give an example of where you do not believe Letter A 3-8d (2-½" ´ 0.113") would be compliant based on 24" center floor joist for me to fully understand why you are concerned and want to use NDS
 
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