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Natural Gas Regulator Building

nitramnaed

nitramnaed

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
182
Location
L'Etolle du Nord
Hello Everyone,
I have been asked by an Mechanical engineer to help in the design of a 60' x 80' natural gas regulator building. I want to classify this as a U occupancy. It is not tempered and has no sprinkler system and will not be occupied. Structural engineer seems to think it should be an H occupancy because of the natural gas and there will be occasional maintenance going on. I say it doesn't need to be H as there is no handling or storage of materials just a large valve located inside. I admit it will have a potential of explosive atmosphere so all mechanical and electrical will be to Class 1.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Is it more weather enclosure than anything??


I guess you looked through all the H’s to see if any apply??

But all the electrical and stuff will be appropriate for the Hazard


Is this going to be in the middle of nowhere or close to it???
 
Weather and security. It's actually within the city limits of a large metro area. That's why they wanted an Architect involved otherwise they would have just ordered one of those prefab structures.
 
$ ~ $

nitramaed,

Thanks for the reply !.......Can you please help me; and
possibly others, to understand if there is a "potential
explosive atmosphere" inside the structure, how is it not
rated an H Occ. Group [ i.e. - can you please cite the
applicable Code sections that will allow the structure
to not be rated an H ] ?

Also, ...what is meant by "not being tempered" ?......Is
there some type of glazing involved ?

Thanks !

$ ~ $
 
north star said:
$ ~ $

nitramaed,

Thanks for the reply !.......Can you please help me; and
possibly others, to understand if there is a "potential
explosive atmosphere" inside the structure, how is it not
rated an H Occ. Group [ i.e. - can you please cite the
applicable Code sections that will allow the structure
to not be rated an H ] ?

Also, ...what is meant by "not being tempered" ?......Is
there some type of glazing involved ?

Thanks !

$ ~ $
Click to expand...
My understanding of an H occupancy is that materials need to be stored or handled. That is not the case in this installation. There is no way to quantify the material as there is only valves for a natural gas pipeline.

Not being tempered means no heat or AC.
 
Not seeing a H it would fit into
nitramnaed said:
My understanding of an H occupancy is that materials need to be stored or handled. That is not the case in this installation. There is no way to quantify the material as there is only valves for a natural gas pipeline.

Not being tempered means no heat or AC.
Click to expand...


If you go through the H list, I do not see it meeting any of the H's.
 
https://www.aga.org/natural-gas/delivery/how-does-the-natural-gas-delivery-system-work-/


The Distribution System

From the gate station, natural gas moves into distribution lines or "mains" that range from 2 inches to more than 24 inches in diameter. Within each distribution system, there are sections that operate at different pressures, with regulators controlling the pressure. Some regulators are remotely controlled by the utility to change pressures in parts of the system to optimize efficiency. Generally speaking, the closer natural gas gets to a customer, the smaller the pipe diameter is and the lower the pressure is.

The gas utility's central control center continuously monitors flow rates and pressures at various points in its system. The operators must ensure that the gas reaches each customer with sufficient flow rate and pressure to fuel equipment and appliances. They also ensure that the pressures stay below the maximum pressure for each segment of the system. Distribution lines typically operate at less than one-fifth of their design pressure.


Natural Gas is regulated by the DOT as a flammable gas -
 
Well unless federal or state land,

Private business setting something whatever you want to call it building in a jurisdiction that enforces building, zoning, etc

The city still has a day, otherwise they could put it in your front yard.

Our city regulates natural gas wells, compressor stations, well sites.
 
* * * + * * *

..continuing with this discussion **nitramnaed**,
...if you have a Class I electrical condition, then
by definition of the NEC, you have a hazardous
environment \ area [ i.e. - a Class I, Division I,
or a Class I, Division II, ..."the presence of
flammable gases ]. YOU: "You don't want a
spark in case of a leak". Agreed !

If you are requiring the installation of Class I
electrical systems, ...can you please explain
how you are not also using the H-2 Occ.
classification for this structure [ RE: Section
307.4, `18 IBC, H-2 - "flammable gases" ].
Also, this Code section does not mention
"storage of" the flammable gases.

Thanks !

* * * + * * *
 
The utility companies do not need permits for infrastructure. If the sole purpose for the construction is related to the business of conveying natural gas they may be exempt. I know that's the case for the regulators. It would be a tight stretch to include the building but it could happen. No office space, bathrooms, storage, workshop.....in other words, nothing but the regulators equals no permit required......at least that's the way in California.
 
north star said:
* * * + * * *

..continuing with this discussion **nitramnaed**,
...if you have a Class I electrical condition, then
by definition of the NEC, you have a hazardous
environment \ area [ i.e. - a Class I, Division I,
or a Class I, Division II, ..."the presence of
flammable gases ]. YOU: "You don't want a
spark in case of a leak". Agreed !

If you are requiring the installation of Class I
electrical systems, ...can you please explain
how you are not also using the H-2 Occ.
classification for this structure [ RE: Section
307.4, `18 IBC, H-2 - "flammable gases" ].
Also, this Code section does not mention
"storage of" the flammable gases.

Thanks !

* * * + * * *
Click to expand...



Not sure if natural gas hits it??

If it does than there are a lot of H-2’s that are some other occupancy


F]FLAMMABLE GAS. A material that is a gas at 68°F (20°C) or less at 14.7 pounds per square inch atmosphere (psia) (101 kPa) of pressure [a material that has a boiling point of 68°F (20°C) or less at 14.7 psia (101 kPa)], which also meets one of the following:

  1. 1.Is ignitable at 14.7 psia (101 kPa) when in a mixture of 13 percent or less by volume with air.

  2. 2.Has a flammable range at 14.7 psia (101 kPa) with air of at least 12 percent, regardless of the lower limit.
The limits specified shall be determined at 14.7 psi (101 kPa) of pressure and a temperature of 68°F (20°C) in accordance with ASTM E681.



Plus you have to look at other parts of the code to see what if anything applies
 
Last edited:
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ICE, ...that is not the hard & fast rule everywhere.
While the utility companies "may" have utility
right-of-ways, in some parts of the country they
still have to get the blessings of the local AHJ.
This could mean a No Cost or a Low Cost Permit.
Some AHJ's want to know the locations of potential
hazardous conditions within their jurisdiction,
plus, ...every town \ city \ other needs revenues
no matter how small.

Just sayin'...

$ ~ $
 
@ ~ @

**cda**, thanks for chiming in.......I am using
**nitramnaed**' terminology.....He has introduced
the Class I electrical installation for this structure.

Also, if the interior is not an H Occ. classification,
why the concern enough to require Class I electrical
systems, and for a "spark" ?

@ ~ @
 
north star said:
@ ~ @

**cda**, thanks for chiming in.......I am using
**nitramnaed**' terminology.....He has introduced
the Class I electrical installation for this structure.

Also, if the interior is not an H Occ. classification,
why the concern enough to require Class I electrical
systems, and for a "spark" ?

@ ~ @
Click to expand...


Well a gasoline dispenser at 7-11 has fancy wiring

And that place is not a “H”
 
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$ ~ $ ~ $

In the design of structures, one of the very first things to do
is to assign an Occupancy Group designation, "then" [ and
ONLY then ] the determination of the various systems that
are to be installed in \ on that structure are clarified.

In **nitramnaed**' application, he has already determined that
the structure should have Class I electrical components.

To me, this is "putting the cart before the horse" [ so-to-speak ].
NOTE: No disrespect to **nitramnaed** is inferred
or intended.

IMO, ...the structure either should have an H Occ. Group
assignment, or the Class I electrical components are not
required.

Thoughts ?

$ ~ $ ~ $
 
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