NEC Code in Basement regarding switches and lights

[CityguyUSA]

In my basement are 2 rooms seperated by a partial foundation wall. Thick stone. Let's call them the back room and the front room and you pass between them through an opening in the foundation. Kind of like this diagram below.

+========================================+
| | | | <-outside steps | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| S2R | S1C Inside steps S1T |
| | |
| Back room | S2C Front room |
| |
+==============+ }
| |
" =========================+

S1T = 3-way top of inside stairs
S1C = 3-way common wall in basement
S2C = 3-way common wall in basement
S2R = 3-way at bottom of outdoor steps

S1 controls the front room lights from the top of the inside steps and at the bottom of the steps on the dividing foundation wall.
S2 controls the rear room lights from the bottom of the outside steps and the dividing foundation wall.

I think I know that above the basement that each room must have a switch to the room light at each entry.
I also think I know that you must have a 3 way switch at the top and bottom of all steps.

However, in my basement these common wall switches don't make sense because no one enters the basement at the middle of the foundation. What happens is that you go down and turn on the back room light later leaving and turning off the front room light at the top of the inside steps only to realize that the back room light is still on and of course you need to go down the steps to turn it off and then back up again. I want to eliminate these common wall 3-way switches and operate both the front and rear lights from S2R and S1T, the bottom of the outside steps and the top of the inside steps. Will that pass NEC requirements?

Secondarily, I'd like to use the common wall junction box to add 2 new outlets. That would require a power wire from the neighboring outlet on the other side of the common foundation wall and the existing 3-way switch wiring to be spliced together.

The questions that raises in regards to NEC is can I run a new power wire to the junction box for the outlets and leave that new 3-way splice in that existing junction box where the switches were or should I move the switch related wiring to it's own junction box?

At the same time I'm adding lighting oulets from 4 100 watt bulbs (2 in the rear and 2 in the front) to 10 7 watt LED lights (4 in the rear and 6 in the front).

I know I'm not overloading the circuit but future home owners may want to put back 100 watt incandescent bulbs (assuming they're still available). The basement lighting circuit also has the overhead kitchen light plus an overhead table light, a backdoor light and an outdoor spotlight. I plan on eliminating the spotlight entirely. Worst case I guess would be going from the current 1000 watts to 1500 watts on a 20 amp circuit. I can't stop them but what's the NEC requirement around LED's and incandescent bulbs going forward? Slap a sticker on it?

The outlet circuit, also a 20-amp, currently has 5 outlets. 2 in each room plus one outback. Like I said, I want to add 2 outlets on the common wall and another out front going to a total of 8 outlets. I think I also know that above ground rooms must have outlets every 6 feet. I'm no where near that amount of coverage in the basement. If I were to go to an outlet every 6 feet that would mean approximately 23 total outlets from the current 4.

Thanks guys.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

My apologies. I'm sure you don't have a CADD program so you did the best you could with keyboard characters, but between your sketch and the written description, I have no idea what's going on so I can't offer any useful comment.

 

[bill1952]

Hard to follow as YC suggests but, outlet spacing is 6ft to a receptacle, so 12' spacing, and don't think that applies to an unfinished basement.

A switch light in each room, not one by each entry.

Whether removing wire from middle switch is required is based on capacity of box. Any electrician would know. I made an Excel sheet and have a hard copy in my electrical tool box. You ought to be able to fine that on line, or add a box extension or just add a new box for receptacles and blank cover on switch box.

I'd put the LED lamps in and say fine. You can overload any circuit and if breaker or fuse is correct, it will be fine.

I think I hit most of your inquiries?

Not an electrician, engineer, or inspector but my career required a copy of the NEC stay on my desk and I've rewired several houses. Thought you should know.

 

[e hilton]

A switch light in each room, not one by each entry.

I had trouble following the story. But … if you can only get to the back room by going through the front room, would one switch that turns on lights in both rooms be acceptable?

 

[bill1952]

I didn't mention it but at least the new receptacles would probably have to be GFCI protected. Does depend which edition of NEC is adopted. I'd recommend you GFCI protect all the basement receptacles. Too easy and I expensive not to.

I don't know if arc fault is now required where you are. It is here on any new or altered work.

 

[CityguyUSA]

My apologies. I'm sure you don't have a CADD program so you did the best you could with keyboard characters, but between your sketch and the written description, I have no idea what's going on so I can't offer any useful comment.

Sorry I didn't get back. For some reason I missed a day of emails.

The drawing I attempted to do conmpressed together making it impossible to read. I tried a CAD app but I was limited to the number of items I could add. It wasn't very mistake friendly either. I had to delete and readd items to make fixes. I coudn't seem to drag line ends as most good programs would allow. It just got annoying. Edraw I think it was.

 

[bill1952]

I've been a AutoCAD user since it was introduced in 1982 but sometimes a piece of paper, a pencil, and a cell phone camera are the simplest way to convey a graphic on a forum post.

 

[CityguyUSA]

Hard to follow as YC suggests but, outlet spacing is 6ft to a receptacle, so 12' spacing, and don't think that applies to an unfinished basement.

A switch light in each room, not one by each entry.

Whether removing wire from middle switch is required is based on capacity of box. Any electrician would know. I made an Excel sheet and have a hard copy in my electrical tool box. You ought to be able to fine that on line, or add a box extension or just add a new box for receptacles and blank cover on switch box.

I'd put the LED lamps in and say fine. You can overload any circuit and if breaker or fuse is correct, it will be fine.

I think I hit most of your inquiries?

Not an electrician, engineer, or inspector but my career required a copy of the NEC stay on my desk and I've rewired several houses. Thought you should know.

Appologies for not responding for some reason I missed the emails.

As I tried to explain I have a front and a back room. At the top of the stairs is a 3-way sw that turns the light on to the front room. The other 3-way is at the bottom of the steps. Beside that 3-way at the bottom of the steps is another 3-way that controls the back room then at the back door is the other 3-way that controls the back room light.

Initially I was going to put 2 recepticles where the 2 3-ways were on the common wall between the 2 rooms. Then I realized I could put a 4-way in place of the 2 3-ways on that common wall and have all the lights controled from the switch at the top of the steps, the back door and the new 4-way on the common wall and still put a recepticle inside that junciton box. That eliminates most of my questions or concerns or wiring in the junction box and would acheive a single circuit for the front and back room lighting.

As for adding the outlets to the existing circuit I've read that it's based on square feet of coverage rather than some max amount of outlets. For example if you have an outlet every 12' that would be more than anything I'm doing. And as you state as long as the breaker is correct the circuit is protected.

One thing I didn't think about was AFCI/GFCI. The outlet I bought is just a standard outlet as are all of the other outlets in my unfinished basement. I did buy a tamperproof (hard to plug into) GFCI to go out front. What I'm thinking now if this is a requirement maybe just go with the GFCI circuit breaker or move the outside outlet to the inside at the front of the circuit but I don't want equipment shutting off randomly which was my complaint with most of the GFCI outlets. They seem to trip randomly. I'm assuming since GFCI's were introduced some years ago that they might be of better quality or design now? Do you have any thoughts on this?

 

[CityguyUSA]

I didn't mention it but at least the new receptacles would probably have to be GFCI protected. Does depend which edition of NEC is adopted. I'd recommend you GFCI protect all the basement receptacles. Too easy and I expensive not to.

I don't know if arc fault is now required where you are. It is here on any new or altered work.

So on the municipal website it states that Penssylvania is using 2018 building codes, NEC codes, etc. Do we have a lazy worthless mayor that's not doing his job? My answer would be YES but I hate to depend on that. Ultimately it's going to be pass or fail by inspection.

The easiest way is to replace the circuit breaker. The cheapest would be to move the outside AFCI/GFCI outlet from outside to the front of the circuit. But again I really don't want to have random tripping. Is this a problem with newer AFCI/GFCI? Are breakers more reliable than a AFCI/GFCI outlets used at the front of the circuit? Since there would be no official looking AFCI/GFCI outlet outside anymore I guess the inspectors are used to seeing that now?

 

[CityguyUSA]

I've been a AutoCAD user since it was introduced in 1982 but sometimes a piece of paper, a pencil, and a cell phone camera are the simplest way to convey a graphic on a forum post.

You're right. Didn't dawn on me that I can still write. lol

 

[jar546]

So on the municipal website it states that Penssylvania is using 2018 building codes, NEC codes, etc. Do we have a lazy worthless mayor that's not doing his job? My answer would be YES but I hate to depend on that. Ultimately it's going to be pass or fail by inspection.

The easiest way is to replace the circuit breaker. The cheapest would be to move the outside AFCI/GFCI outlet from outside to the front of the circuit. But again I really don't want to have random tripping. Is this a problem with newer AFCI/GFCI? Are breakers more reliable than a AFCI/GFCI outlets used at the front of the circuit? Since there would be no official looking AFCI/GFCI outlet outside anymore I guess the inspectors are used to seeing that now?

Not sure what nuisance tripping you are talking about. The new generation receptacles and circuit breakers that provide AFCI/GFCI protection work great and if they trip it is because you have an actual problem. Install what you are suppose to per the 2017 NEC that applies in your state or hire a qualified electrician to do it to code and pull a permit.

 

[bill1952]

I think replacing the breaker for the basement with a combo GFCI/AFCI would be simplest, but probably in the $75 neighbourhood.

And I have never had problems with GFCI as you mention and as I have seen others mention. Maybe early generation were problematic.