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New home or ????

rktect 1

rktect 1

SILVER MEMBER
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Oct 20, 2009
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1,120
Location
Illinois
OK. So I just got some plans for an addition. A two story addition. The entire home will be about 7,000 sq. ft. plus about 1,000 sq. ft. habitable attic space and 2,500 sq. ft. habitable basement. So really like 10,500 sq. ft. total home.

Of that entire home the architect wants to leave the foundation for the attached garage, the garage slab, the four adjacent garage walls and one other 12-15 foot long section of footing and foundation. The structure above the garage floor is called out as existing 2x12 floor joists to remain with a 2nd note to sister new 2x12 floor joists.

So, is this an addition as he is indicating and has submitted for permit for or is this a new home? I'm trying to figure out where the threshold is at here? Is he just avoiding a new home tax thing with the county or state by claiming addition? If so, I don't really care but I think he should submit for new home permit, not addition.

Thoughts?
 
Canadian here, so I may be
a) entirely too reasonable
b) unaware of various Codes used in the Excited States

This is a rebuild. It's a partial demo and construction of a new dwelling on an existing foundation. A foundation is not a building, really.
 
rktect 1 said:
OK. So I just got some plans for an addition. A two story addition. The entire home will be about 7,000 sq. ft. plus about 1,000 sq. ft. habitable attic space and 2,500 sq. ft. habitable basement. So really like 10,500 sq. ft. total home.

Of that entire home the architect wants to leave the foundation for the attached garage, the garage slab, the four adjacent garage walls and one other 12-15 foot long section of footing and foundation. The structure above the garage floor is called out as existing 2x12 floor joists to remain with a 2nd note to sister new 2x12 floor joists.

So, is this an addition as he is indicating and has submitted for permit for or is this a new home? I'm trying to figure out where the threshold is at here? Is he just avoiding a new home tax thing with the county or state by claiming addition? If so, I don't really care but I think he should submit for new home permit, not addition.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
In my jurisdiction, the county would reassess the property anyway. We submit all issued permit information to the county daily.
 
What was the original plan configuration, and how many stories and how many square feet was the former house?

The definition of "addition" basically means making an existing something larger. When you tear down 90% of the something and then rebuild it, IMHO that's new construction.
 
rktect 1 said:
So, is this an addition as he is indicating and has submitted for permit for or is this a new home? I'm trying to figure out where the threshold is at here? Is he just avoiding a new home tax thing with the county or state by claiming addition? If so, I don't really care but I think he should submit for new home permit, not addition.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The OP hasn't been back to respond to my questions. Meanwhile, I have some thoughts to offer:

Several years ago, a building official friend who has a penchant for proposing things just to stir up an argument offered the notion that, under the IRC (I think we were under the 2015 IRC at the time) allowed the reconstruction of a house that had burned to the foundation, IF the foundation remained and was structurally sound and IF the house was reconstructed to the original plan. This is what gave rise to my questions above. I would have to do a deep dive into the IRC to reconstruct the path my friend took to get there, but at the time I followed it and it appeared to make sense. But in the current question, not even the foundation will remain.

Going back to BOCA, there was a breakdown for existing buildings under which if new work represented less than 25% of the building (I don't recall if it was value or square feet of floor area), the work could be done using materials and provisions of the code under which the building was constructed. From 25% through 50%, any new work had to conform to the current code but the remainder of the building did NOT have to be brought up to current code. Above 50%, the building had to be brought up to current code conformity.

We see this approach echoed in the three levels of alteration in the Work Area Method of the IEBC.

Any way you slice it, the project proposed in the OP represents far more than 50%. IMHO it can't be classified as an "addition," since there won't be anything left (other than the garage) onto which to add.
 
If it is in a flood zone then it would be limited to 50% of the market value of the existing structure.

[RB] ADDITION. An extension or increase in floor area, number of stories or height of a building or structure.
For applications for reconstruction, rehabilitation, addition, alteration, repair or other improvement of existing buildings or structures located in a flood hazard area as established by Table R301.2(1), the building official shall examine or cause to be examined the construction documents and shall make a determination with regard to the value of the proposed work. For buildings that have sustained damage of any origin, the value of the proposed work shall include the cost to repair the building or structure to its pre damaged condition. If the building official finds that the value of proposed work equals or exceeds 50 percent of the market value of the building or structure before the damage has occurred or the improvement is started, the proposed work is a substantial improvement or repair of substantial damage and the building official shall require existing portions of the entire building or structure to meet the requirements of Section R322.

For the purpose of this determination, a substantial improvement shall mean any repair, reconstruction, rehabilitation, addition or improvement of a building or structure, the cost of which equals or exceeds 50 percent of the market value of the building or structure before the improvement or repair is started. Where the building or structure has sustained substantial damage, repairs necessary to restore the building or structure to its pre-damaged condition shall be considered substantial improvements regardless of the actual repair work performed. The term shall not include either of the following:
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
What was the original plan configuration, and how many stories and how many square feet was the former house?

The definition of "addition" basically means making an existing something larger. When you tear down 90% of the something and then rebuild it, IMHO that's new construction.
Click to expand...
The existing home was about 2000 sq. ft. footprint and about 3200 sq. ft. for both floors. The new home reuses the garage exterior walls and utilizes a 12 foot section of another exterior wall. Overall, east to west, same footprint but north and south both expanded well beyond.
 
That might be a "new dwelling" here in SoCal and that makes a difference in several aspects. For example, a solar array is required for all new SFD. I say "might be" because there are a few hundred building officials with a few hundred ways of looking at stuff.
 
I would likely call it an addition and/ or level 3 alteration, but it really depends on the code they are trying to get out of...If we are just arguing about what the permit is called, I don't really care...
 
steveray said:
I would likely call it an addition and/ or level 3 alteration, but it really depends on the code they are trying to get out of...If we are just arguing about what the permit is called, I don't really care...
Click to expand...
What if by calling it an addition vs new home it changes the permit amount because of how your software is set up for these two different things?
 
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