NFPA 101 just what is it?

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Each day is what we make of it, and I see an opportunity here.

Suck in that chest.

I had an idea of what I wanted to eat but didn't have a recipe for it. This is what I did, and it was scrumptious.

Ingredients:

2 pigeons (ONLY country pigeons will do, well-fed on farmer's corn, etc.)

Olive oil

Balsamic vinegar

Garlic

Salt & Pepper

Pomegranate molasses (regular molasses will do)

Meat broth

Sprinkle of zatar and oregano

Bay leaf

1-2 c. red wine

3 onions, diced into chunks

2 carrots, cut into rounds

Celariac, diced

5-6 potatoes cut into rounds

Butter

Cheddar cheese, grated

Meat portion of the filling: Clean pigeons, remove the breast meat (which is red like a duck's) and marinate in oil, vinegar, garlic, pepper, and pomegranate molasses overnight. The following morning, put the meat and its marinade in the crock pot along with meat broth (I used pig broth I had previously made), a healthy sprinkle of zatar, a bay leaf, oregano, red wine. Set the crock pot on high for a few hours, then on low. Total crock time, 8 hours.

Veggie portion of the filling: In a heavy cast iron skillet, glazed onions with butter and olive oil. Add carrots, and a big piece of celeriac cut into small bits. When vegetables are soft, add potatoes (I used one Mila, a Magic Molly, a Troll, a Red Norland, a Red Maria...). Cover the skillet and keep flame on low. Flip the veggies regularly, checking for dryness, and add either butter or liquid from the meat to keep them moist. Total veggie time, 4.5 hours.

Crust: Blind-baked a bottom crust using the Nothing-in-the House pie crust recipe in a deep 9" pie mold.

Putting it all together: When the crust is blind-baking, combine the strained meat and the veggies in a bowl and add grated cheddar cheese, salt, and pepper. Fill the crust, covering it with a top crust and cut out a pigeon (or crust design of your choice). Bake the pie another 25-30 minutes to melt the cheese and bake the top crust.

Meanwhile,use the remaining broth and marinade from the meat to make a rue in the same cast iron skillet the veggies were cooked in.

The pie should be served with a sense of irony and tongue firmly in cheek. Bon Appetite.

 

[brudgers]

If Goofy built stairs, he could take lessons from your side of this thread.

And if he built ladders?

 

[brudgers]

Geez! I'm really itchin to hear back from ICC on this. Of course that won't answer the original question, but that's ok, it will be informative. Yea MT, when I look at stairs I am mindful that some folks like a couple of martinis from time to time like me. And I've busted my carcass on my own stairs because the last step at the bottom is only about 5' since I added concrete there. In fact, these stairs as originally constructed did not have a legal handrail which caused my sister to fall and get banged up. Bear in mind this happened before I had ever looked at any code book besides the NEC so I didn't know the difference. I learned pretty quick when my sister fell though. They were quickly fixed. BSSTG

A dwelling with a code compliant stair is more dangerous than one without sprinklers.

 

[jhansen]

Good afternoon everyone, I usually just lurk but wanted to add to this conversation. I have been doing some research the last couple of days for an upcoming variance request for a home owner who installed non conforming steps. What I found out was that 12,000 people a year in the US die from falls from stairs.

Just because a stair is not a required exit does not mean that people who use it and wont fall. For that reason I enforce the stairway provisions for all stairs constructed.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/coffee-break/cb_fp_2010_52.pdf

 

[texasbo]

What sort of tread and riser requirements do you choose to enforce on a laundry chute?

How many steps are in the recovery program that you surely must be entering soon? Your posts indicate that your drinking problem has returned.

And while we're talking about poop, and chutes, how about that poopchute you call a design studio? You squeezed out any noncomplying secondary stairs lately, and told the client it was ok because it wasn't a stair?

You are incompetent, and a menace to the public. Such a design should not only be red-tagged, but should reported to the state board of architectural examiners.

It's not a "thingy", or a "folly", or a plant stand, or a climbing wall, or a fire pole, or any of the other ridiculous nomenclature that's been bandied about in 7 pages that make me weep for the future of our profession. It's an effing stair, and it doesn't comply with the code.

Based on your history of carelessness for public safety, and gross negligence in the application of the code, I'm not at all surprised with the assclownery I've seen from you. You are a perfect example of why many architects have diminished their profession to something between a laborer with no education, and a paraprofessional such as a draftsmen or surveyor. Despite the professionalism exhibited by many of the other architects on this forum, the negligence and ineptitude you display are examples of why there are so many architects who are unemployed, have changed careers, and/or are being paid little more than the guy up on the roof swinging the hammer.

But despite my lack of surprise at your ridiculous posts, I am saddened that there are actual building professionals on this forum who are willing to wink at it in a dwelling, while fully admitting it wouldn't be allowed elsewhere, and those building professionals who liken a stair violation to such nonsense as a climbing wall, fire pole, or a piece of art.

 

[texasbo]

Good afternoon everyone, I usually just lurk but wanted to add to this conversation. I have been doing some research the last couple of days for an upcoming variance request for a home owner who installed non conforming steps. What I found out was that 12,000 people a year in the US die from falls from stairs.Just because a stair is not a required exit does not mean that people who use it and wont fall. For that reason I enforce the stairway provisions for all stairs constructed.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/coffee-break/cb_fp_2010_52.pdf

No, they don't die from falls from stairs. They die from falls from "thingies"

 

[brudgers]

How many steps are in the recovery program that you surely must be entering soon? Your posts indicate that your drinking problem has returned. And while we're talking about poop, and chutes, how about that poopchute you call a design studio? You squeezed out any noncomplying secondary stairs lately, and told the client it was ok because it wasn't a stair? You are incompetent, and a menace to the public. Such a design should not only be red-tagged, but should reported to the state board of architectural examiners. It's not a "thingy", or a "folly", or a plant stand, or a climbing wall, or a fire pole, or any of the other ridiculous nomenclature that's been bandied about in 7 pages that make me weep for the future of our profession. It's an effing stair, and it doesn't comply with the code. Based on your history of carelessness for public safety, and gross negligence in the application of the code, I'm not at all surprised with the assclownery I've seen from you. You are a perfect example of why many architects have diminished their profession to something between a laborer with no education, and a paraprofessional such as a draftsmen or surveyor. Despite the professionalism exhibited by many of the other architects on this forum, the negligence and ineptitude you display are examples of why there are so many architects who are unemployed, have changed careers, and/or are being paid little more than the guy up on the roof swinging the hammer. But despite my lack of surprise at your ridiculous posts, I am saddened that there are actual building professionals on this forum who are willing to wink at it in a dwelling, while fully admitting it wouldn't be allowed elsewhere, and those building professionals who liken a stair violation to such nonsense as a climbing wall, fire pole, or a piece of art.

Suck in your chest.

 

[texasbo]

Suck in your chest.

Do you read Architectural Digest while you're squeezing this stuff out?

 

[brudgers]

Good afternoon everyone, I usually just lurk but wanted to add to this conversation. I have been doing some research the last couple of days for an upcoming variance request for a home owner who installed non conforming steps. What I found out was that 12,000 people a year in the US die from falls from stairs. Just because a stair is not a required exit does not mean that people who use it and wont fall. For that reason I enforce the stairway provisions for all stairs constructed. http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/coffee-break/cb_fp_2010_52.pdf

More people die from intentional self inflicted gunshots a year. You can't regulate stupidity.

But Texas has been known to hire it into building official positions.

 

[texasbo]

More people die from intentional self inflicted gunshots a year. You can't regulate stupidity.

But Texas has been known to hire it into building official positions.

I see a framing hammer in your future. Or jail.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Good afternoon everyone, I usually just lurk but wanted to add to this conversation. I have been doing some research the last couple of days for an upcoming variance request for a home owner who installed non conforming steps. What I found out was that 12,000 people a year in the US die from falls from stairs.Just because a stair is not a required exit does not mean that people who use it and wont fall. For that reason I enforce the stairway provisions for all stairs constructed.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/coffee-break/cb_fp_2010_52.pdf

thanks for posting and welcome to the forum!

just curious, of those 12,000 falls from stairs, only half occur in residential applications? So now we are at 6,000 stair deaths in SFR?

Do you know if the dimensional criteria used in the Coffee Break report were used to establish which of all stair deaths were caused by non-compliant stairs? If this is the case, we should have seen a sharp drop in stair case deaths when jurisdictions switched from the 2003 IRC to the 2006.

 

[jhansen]

The numbers are just a total of all accidental deaths that were caused by falls from stairs. I am sure some of the falls were from code compliant stairs. I am not trying to make the point that if all stairs are code compliant that there would be no accidents, just saying that accidents would be reduced if all stairs had a uniform rise, run, adequate width, hand/guard rail, ext....

 

[mtlogcabin]

I am saddened that there are actual building professionals on this forum who are willing to wink at it in a dwelling, while fully admitting it wouldn't be allowed elsewhere, and those building professionals who liken a stair violation to such nonsense as a climbing wall, fire pole, or a piece of art.

Texasbo

I agree as a stair it is a violation and needs to be addressed but it does not need to be removed or even corrected

Some fights are not worth the battle and to take this to a variance board to get approval (most variance boards are wimps) when there is already a compliant stair serving the area is not worth the fight. I would work to get the homeowner to agree to install a guard at the top and agree to use it for some other purpose, a shelving unit, plant stand or whatever then to tell them it has to be removed. There is always more than one solution to a problem. If the homeowner chooses to do something different after we leave so be it.

A variance board should never have a part in the decision of application of any building, fire or life safety code

 

[BSSTG]

A variance board should never have a part in the decision of application of any building, fire or life safety code

That's precisely the point which started this thread. In my case the variance committee is only allowed to do variances for building and subdivision code, not life safety code. Hence the original question about NFPA 101. Now truth be known, I really don't care much for variance committees either after having seen all of this. Nevertheless, I have to deal with it best I can. It's not something that's going to go away even after I hit the Mega Millions tonight. It's just that someone else will have to deal with it.

BSSTG

 

[AegisFPE]

Where a compliant MOE stair is provided, I cannot agree that the code would prohibit you from rescuing a legacy spiral stair you remember from a house in your childhood, which is now being torn down, and install it in such a manner that it connects two levels of your home (which are already provided with compliant MOE). This is a clear distinction from someone attempting to replace their sole modern existing MOE stair, or adding a new loft where this legacy stair is the only access.

I cannot get behind the approach of installing a guard per R312 only at the top. While it may technically meet the code, it would effectively trap someone ascending the legacy staircase at the top (imagine propensity for a fall of trying to turn around at the top the staircase, or climbing over the guard!) Upon removal of the guard by the occupants (because it was only installed after the AHJ strong-armed them and made them install it as an impediment to using the legacy stair, which they may want to do from time-to-time for nostalgia-sake) would eliminate any protection it was intended to offer.

Perhaps a more amicable solution would be "an approved barrier (similar to a swinging gate found at the LOED per IBC 1022.7)" that complies with the opening limitations of R312, and is installed at the top of the legacy staircase to prevent persons from unintentionally descending. This could be approved per R104.11 as an alternative to a guard which would be prescribed per R312 to be provided along floor openings, as the legacy staircase is less of a hazard than the edge of a balcony, but more of a hazard than a modern stair.

Through this process the applicant could be educated in why stair provisions have changed, and the concerns of the AHJ. Get their buy-in that they want to keep their home safe for guests of all ages, and let them develop a self-closing barrier device that readily allows occupants ascending the stair to get to the upper floor without having to man-handle some latch system, while requiring someone to have to intentionally open the barrier to descend the legacy stair. If they had a hand in developing an aesthetically pleasing solution, they may not be as likely to remove it.

Nope, but I don't see people coming and going through windows with the frequency I see people descending and ascending stairways.

just curious, of those 12,000 falls from stairs, only half occur in residential applications? So now we are at 6,000 stair deaths in SFR?

"The researchers examined emergency department data from the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS) for 1990 to 2008. The analysis included an estimated 98,415 children and teens -- 5,180 per year -- who were treated for injuries related to falling out of windows.(MedPage, 8/21/11)" As this number excludes adults falling from windows, the total annual number of falls from windows may exceed 6,000 persons, such that falls from windows may be comparable to falls down stairs.

And of those 6,000 falls down SFR stairs, I wonder how many of those victims had a choice in "stairs." Was there only one option, or could they have chosen an alternative route? Where there is a more "challenging" "stair" or a stair that complies with current MOE criteria, I would expect fall-prone and risk-averse occupants to utilize the MOE stair. Where both are provided, the minimum level of safety prescribed by the code is achieved.

And what about falls in bathtubs or showers? Stairs are small potatoes! "The State of Home Safety in America™ Report (2002) found that injuries related to bathtubs and showers caused more than 170,000 emergency room visits in a single year. (Home Safety Council No. 14, pg.8)"

 

[AegisFPE]

With regard to NFPA 101, there is a similar provision for a barrier provided with stairs in Section 7.7.3.2. However, insofaras the subject legacy stair is not part of the means of egress, it may be considered part of the building, such that NFPA 101 may not apply. Regardless, NFPA 101 also provides for alternatives to be approved by the authority in Section 1.4.3.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Thanks Aegis!

I have no intention of riding this dead horse home, let alone into next week. Have a great weekend everyone, take care and watch your step.

 

[imhotep]

Where a compliant MOE stair is provided, I cannot agree that the code would prohibit you from rescuing a legacy spiral stair you remember from a house in your childhood, which is now being torn down, and install it in such a manner that it connects two levels of your home (which are already provided with compliant MOE). This is a clear distinction from someone attempting to replace their sole modern existing MOE stair, or adding a new loft where this legacy stair is the only access. I cannot get behind the approach of installing a guard per R312 only at the top. While it may technically meet the code, it would effectively trap someone ascending the legacy staircase at the top (imagine propensity for a fall of trying to turn around at the top the staircase, or climbing over the guard!) Upon removal of the guard by the occupants (because it was only installed after the AHJ strong-armed them and made them install it as an impediment to using the legacy stair, which they may want to do from time-to-time for nostalgia-sake) would eliminate any protection it was intended to offer.

Perhaps a more amicable solution would be "an approved barrier (similar to a swinging gate found at the LOED per IBC 1022.7)" that complies with the opening limitations of R312, and is installed at the top of the legacy staircase to prevent persons from unintentionally descending. This could be approved per R104.11 as an alternative to a guard which would be prescribed per R312 to be provided along floor openings, as the legacy staircase is less of a hazard than the edge of a balcony, but more of a hazard than a modern stair.

Through this process the applicant could be educated in why stair provisions have changed, and the concerns of the AHJ. Get their buy-in that they want to keep their home safe for guests of all ages, and let them develop a self-closing barrier device that readily allows occupants ascending the stair to get to the upper floor without having to man-handle some latch system, while requiring someone to have to intentionally open the barrier to descend the legacy stair. If they had a hand in developing an aesthetically pleasing solution, they may not be as likely to remove it.

"The researchers examined emergency department data from the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS) for 1990 to 2008. The analysis included an estimated 98,415 children and teens -- 5,180 per year -- who were treated for injuries related to falling out of windows.(MedPage, 8/21/11)" As this number excludes adults falling from windows, the total annual number of falls from windows may exceed 6,000 persons, such that falls from windows may be comparable to falls down stairs.

And of those 6,000 falls down SFR stairs, I wonder how many of those victims had a choice in "stairs." Was there only one option, or could they have chosen an alternative route? Where there is a more "challenging" "stair" or a stair that complies with current MOE criteria, I would expect fall-prone and risk-averse occupants to utilize the MOE stair. Where both are provided, the minimum level of safety prescribed by the code is achieved.

And what about falls in bathtubs or showers? Stairs are small potatoes! "The State of Home Safety in America™ Report (2002) found that injuries related to bathtubs and showers caused more than 170,000 emergency room visits in a single year. (Home Safety Council No. 14, pg.8)"

Well said. It's funny that just saying guard per R312 conjured-up an image of a solid wall with no provision to pass through to the floor opening and 'legacy spiral stair'. It reminds me once again that it just ain't real 'till it's on paper.

 

[permitguy]

As already posted, the IRC has recognized the problem with falls from windows and addressed it. Unless of course someone calls it "an operable piece of transparent art installed in plane with the wall." Then I guess it doesn't have to meet those requirements.

 

[jhansen]

Aegis

12,000 people dont fall down stairs, 12,000 people die when they fall down stairs. Stairs are by far the number one hazard in a SFR..... The number of accidents are much much higher.

The only accident that kills more people than stair falls and car accidents

 

[ICE]

And if he built ladders?

 

[brudgers]

Stairs are by far the number one hazard in a SFR

The hazard of stairs in a dwelling pales in comparison to the hazard of a fire arm.

 

[texasbo]

The hazard of stairs in a dwelling pales in comparison to the hazard of a fire arm.

Amen. And the ICC is proposing an amendment to the IRC regarding firearms as we speak. Or squeeze.

 

[ICE]

Or squeeze.

Sometimes I wonder how on Earth I managed to buy into a group that included you two. Then I read some of my own stuff and I understand.

Quote Originally Posted by KZQuixote View Post

I say now, I mean, I say now!

Can we have a moment of silence while the International Ice Code spontaneously generates a new code section requiring ladder blocking under non-bearing partitions.

Of course because this new section will be uniformly enforced across his concrete jungle, it'll be OK!

FogHorn

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One Eye you do get around don't you. We all pretty much agreed that there is no code for that. And could you get the code straight please. It is not International. It is Intergalactic. Your sister Texasbo named it that because she didn't want to be left out. Big surprise, that one. Y'all thought Scooter was a guy huh. I know...I was just as surprised as you are. Best part is, she wanted to say prophylactic code because she thinks my name is Dick. A head that big you would figure that the brain was a workhorse. What a disappointment; don't you agree?

Tiger