nfpa 18.3.6.3.4 doors in a smoke wall

[Vlab20]

We have a pair of doors that lead to a bathing room in a I-2 occupancy (Skilled Nursing). The pair of doors have hinges and a latch set BUT no closer. NFPA 18.3.6.3.4 tells us we are NOT required to have closers. The AHJ is telling us that in an emergency the trained staff will close all the smoke doors manually but when they come to the pair of doors the AHJ is stating that when closing the doors you must use only one process to close the door. In the case of our pair of doors this would be two processes. The AHJ did not quote code as to this one step closing process. We have requested a code requirement but want to ask all of you where or if this is a requirement???

Thanks.

 

[Coug Dad]

I guess you are using the 2000.

split doors should function as required in 18.3.6.3.6. We are seeing this more frequently as they want wing doors adjacent to the main door to allow for the movement of larger equipment.

 

[Dr. J]

The AHJ is making stuff up. Good for you for asking for chapter and verse.

CD's reference is for dutch doors (over and under). Using this section for side by side doors would also be making stuff up.

Note that the requirement for resisting the passage of smoke and latching is excluded for toilet, shower, and bath rooms (NFPA, not I-code). However, you better double check with the AHJ. I am pretty sure CMS has a written amendment requiring positive latching regardless of this exception.

 

[cda]

"""""""""""""the AHJ is stating that when closing the doors you must use only one process to close the door""""""""""""

well doesn't that happen

I take my hand and close one door "one process"

and, I take my other hand and close the other door "one process"

kinda of s....... if you have a row of rooms with a row of doors, than you will just walk down the hall and close them all no matter if it is ten or one hundred???????????????

 

[Vlab20]

thanks...I can't tell you how many times logic seems to be cast aside versus "personal feelings".

 

[jrpros]

Hey guys, I work in Wisconsin and it has been the State Department of Health's policy that pairs of doors on the corridor must have automatic closing on the inactive leaf. For example, at a patient bedroom, if there is a small inactive leaf that is used just to move large beds or other equipement in and out, it must have a closer, which means automatic flush bolts and a coordinator as well. If they want to hold it open, then they require magnetic holders tied to the fire alarm.

IBC 2009 starts to address this issue, but doesn't do a very good job. 1008.1.9.4 Bolt locks. Exceptions: 5. Where a pair of doors serves patient care rooms in Group I-2 occupancies, self-latching edge- or surface-mounted bolts are permitted on the inactive leaf provided that the inactive leaf is not needed to meet egress width requirements and the inactive leaf contains no doorknobs, panic bars or similar operating hardware.

You will notice the "self-latching" part of that exception. The purpose of this is so that nurses or other employees don't have to deal with latching the inactive leaf as they are going down the hall checking for patients and closing doors. However, from a hardware standpoint, self-latching would usually mean a coordinator as well, to prevent damage.

One of the big problems we run into with hospital work is all of the different agencies involved with certification. They can make up a lot of rules that affect even the door hardware. It is not just the local AHJ that is involved. This might be where you are running into a bathroom door being required to "resist the passage of smoke".

 

[Vlab20]

@jrpros...our building was built under IBC 2006 and NFPA 101 2000 edition and we are not finding anything that addresses the requirement of "one" process to close a door or pair of doors. The room itself is exempt from requiring a closer. Confusing...

 

[jrpros]

@jrpros...our building was built under IBC 2006 and NFPA 101 2000 edition and we are not finding anything that addresses the requirement of "one" process to close a door or pair of doors. The room itself is exempt from requiring a closer. Confusing...

Even in Wisconsin where a patient room is exempt from requiring a closer, the inactive leaf would still need one per the Department of Health.

This makes discussions with end users (mainly nurses) a lot of fun.