Hope this works; I tried to find a short one and post it to keep ya'll from getting homesick; this is an old thread from the old ICC Bulletin Board.
Well, it won't copy/paste from my documents folder, so I'll have to post the whole thread. It won't look the same; but, you can read the posts. The frame and heading will be missing;
Author Topic: Let's give PVC it's own Tread
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 05:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marry Christmas ConArb,
Polyvinyl Cloride is a killer; so we ship it to the poor in China, where they burn it off to remove the "valuable?" parts.
Watch the video;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/ ... 9229.shtml
"Lead, cadmium, mercury, chromium, polyvinyl chlorides. All of these materials have known toxicological effects that range from brain damage to kidney disease to mutations, cancers," Allen Hershkowitz, a senior scientist and authority on waste management at the Natural Resources Defense Council, explained."
And it is what PVC pipe is made of.
What is vinyl chloride?
Vinyl chloride is a colorless gas. It burns easily and it is not stable at high temperatures. It has a mild, sweet odor. It is a manufactured substance that does not occur naturally. It can be formed when other substances such as trichloroethane, trichloroethylene, and tetrachloroethylene are broken down. Vinyl chloride is used to make polyvinyl chloride (PVC). PVC is used to make a variety of plastic products, including pipes, wire and cable coatings, and packaging materials.
"It burns easily and it is not stable at high temperatures."
How many times have you inspectors seen burnt PVC pipe; where plumbers were soldering near drains in new homes? I've seen many hundreds and scourched many myself.
From the Department of Health and Human Services;
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts20.html
Of course, as small amounts leache from the city's and your water supply lines into your water from the tap; you won't know that anything is wrong; except that you and your family keep going to the doctor more often.
Uncle Bob
[ 11-09-2008, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Uncle Bob ]
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
permitguy
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 05:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it as bad as smoking?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1726 | From: Metro Denver, CO | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 07:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worse,
You don't even know your being poisoned.
Uncle Bob
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
permitguy
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 07:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some apparently don't know they're being poisoned when they smoke cigars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1726 | From: Metro Denver, CO | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 08:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permitguy,
Why are you trying to sabotage this thread?
This thread is not about the tobbaco industry. Ya'll keep yelling at ConArb for bring up PVC in other threads. Now we have a PVC thread. Now, your trying to defeat the purpose of this thread; and taking it off subject. Are you just posting because your bored; or does the subject make you nervous; or is it just beyond your comprehension?
Uncle Bob
[ 11-09-2008, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Uncle Bob ]
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
permitguy
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 09:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just find it interesting that the most outspoken critic of plastic we have here lists his main concern as cancer. After years of presenting himself as an advocate for fighting cancer-causing agents in our environment, he now admits to being a smoker. In keeping with the recent rationalizations some use to debate here, I think it only fair that people know about this when they read what they're going to see. To be perfectly clear, there must be financial motives in play with this issue that we don't know about.
I will post nothing more on the subject of this hypocrisy, and beg your pardon for the interruption. I'll urge others to keep it strictly on the topic of plastic from here on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1726 | From: Metro Denver, CO | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
constructionarbitrator
Frequent Contributor
Member Rated:
posted 11-09-2008 09:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uncle Bob:
There is no doubt in my mind that the stuff is going to become illegal in this country, and one of the reasons for the sprinkler manufacturers' frantic push for mandating sprinklers now is to get them approved based upon the low prices of PVC. Once they're mandated and PVC is no longer available they've got them in the code and builders will have to use copper pipe to comply with the mandate, then say sorry folks, it wasn't illegal when we quoted you $3 a foot.
I have installed all kinds of asbestos in my day, and watched my plumbers pound lead on the oakum in the hubs of cast iron pipes before someone invented no-hub cast iron. I bet you melted your share of lead in your early days.
Permitguy use to be a good guy, I can only speculate that he's suffering some brain damage from all the water he's consumed running through CPVC pipe.
Permitguy:
I don't even want to tell you what it costs me to get my cigars hand-rolled up in Sacramento by Cuban expatriots so I can be sure there are no chemicals added as in store bought cigars. Two of my monitors are currently out being rebuilt now at a cost much higher than buying new ones, but I had them custom made with no plastic so I have to have them rebuilt periodically. It's getting real hard to live plastic free, but I try.
--------------------
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic consequences of the lie. Joseph Goebbels
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2436 | From: Martinez, CA | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged |
packsaddle
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-10-2008 02:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i try living plastic-free, but they keep sending me those great offers in the mail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1559 | From: Latitude: 25° 13' North / Longitude: 55° 17' East | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged |
rjj
Frequent Contributor
Member Rated:
posted 11-10-2008 04:01 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose this ran on 60 minutes last night. I don't watch a great deal of TV, but most often watch part of that show.
This is a disgrace.
I have to add a bite of thanks to UB and CA on the PVC and cpvc issues and cancer. Now that I, have read some other reports, I guess I have to bite the bullet and remove the cpvc from my own home.
We just had a big recycle day here and the parking lot was full of computers and TVs, I have know idea where they went once they left here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1301 | From: S.Eastern PA | Registered: Jan 2008 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-10-2008 06:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have argued with ConArb about PVC from way back when. When I started plumbing back in the early 70s; PVC pipe was just becoming a popular replacement for drain lines and exterior water lines. In fact When I took my journeyman plumber's exam; the Texas State Plumbing Examiners Board required us to cut cast iron pipe with a hammer and chisel; connect cast iron with lead and oakem; and properly cut and thread galvaized iron pipe (correctly measuring for 45 degree angle installation) and the correct number of threads. "Wiping lead traps" was even on the exam; but, was about to be dropped from the exam.
Copper was the perfered material for water lines at that time and was eventually replaced by plastics because "it was cheaper and eaiser to use".
It wasn't until I got fed up with "ConArbs Crap"; that I decided to investigate PVC pipe; and prove him wrong. I failed miserably.
Polyvinyl cloride is breaking down and leaching toxins everywhere.
Time to make breakfast. Still learning; and use cast iron skillet. I have enough aluminum in my system to last me a lifetime (pun intended).
Uncle Bob
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
jim baird
Frequent Contributor
Member Rated:
posted 11-10-2008 06:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...This thread is not about the tobbaco industry. Ya'll keep yelling at ConArb for bring up PVC in other threads. Now we have a PVC thread. Now, your trying to defeat the purpose of this thread..."
Guys,
Why don't we start an environmental hazards thread?
Pretty much everything in the environment causes either cancer or some other malady that results finally in death.
I think it was Joseph Campbell who said that life on earth consisted of a slow and continuous process of dismemberment, just like the ritual sacrifice of kings that allegedly went on in ancient times.
--------------------
IRC Combination, ICC Commercial Building, ICC Plans Examiner, SBCCI Housing Rehab
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1430 | From: Danielsville, GA USA | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-10-2008 06:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim,
"Why don't we start an environmental hazards thread?" Go for it.
Why is everyone so paranoid about discussing PVC and the dangers of Polyvinyl Cloride?
Tell ya what; I'm going to delete this thread (after saving it on my hard drive); and I don't want to hear a peep out of you people when ConArb drops bombards you with PVC dangers on your other topics!
But, first, breakfast. I smell bacon burning.
Uncle Bob
[ 11-10-2008, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Uncle Bob ]
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
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I have quite a few more of these threads I saved to my home PC (this is from my laptop),
By the way; where is Permit Guy? I miss him.
Haven't heard from Peach in a while either.
Uncle Bob
Well, it won't copy/paste from my documents folder, so I'll have to post the whole thread. It won't look the same; but, you can read the posts. The frame and heading will be missing;
Author Topic: Let's give PVC it's own Tread
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 05:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marry Christmas ConArb,
Polyvinyl Cloride is a killer; so we ship it to the poor in China, where they burn it off to remove the "valuable?" parts.
Watch the video;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/ ... 9229.shtml
"Lead, cadmium, mercury, chromium, polyvinyl chlorides. All of these materials have known toxicological effects that range from brain damage to kidney disease to mutations, cancers," Allen Hershkowitz, a senior scientist and authority on waste management at the Natural Resources Defense Council, explained."
And it is what PVC pipe is made of.
What is vinyl chloride?
Vinyl chloride is a colorless gas. It burns easily and it is not stable at high temperatures. It has a mild, sweet odor. It is a manufactured substance that does not occur naturally. It can be formed when other substances such as trichloroethane, trichloroethylene, and tetrachloroethylene are broken down. Vinyl chloride is used to make polyvinyl chloride (PVC). PVC is used to make a variety of plastic products, including pipes, wire and cable coatings, and packaging materials.
"It burns easily and it is not stable at high temperatures."
How many times have you inspectors seen burnt PVC pipe; where plumbers were soldering near drains in new homes? I've seen many hundreds and scourched many myself.
From the Department of Health and Human Services;
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts20.html
Of course, as small amounts leache from the city's and your water supply lines into your water from the tap; you won't know that anything is wrong; except that you and your family keep going to the doctor more often.
Uncle Bob
[ 11-09-2008, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Uncle Bob ]
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
permitguy
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 05:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it as bad as smoking?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1726 | From: Metro Denver, CO | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 07:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worse,
You don't even know your being poisoned.
Uncle Bob
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
permitguy
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 07:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some apparently don't know they're being poisoned when they smoke cigars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1726 | From: Metro Denver, CO | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 08:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permitguy,
Why are you trying to sabotage this thread?
This thread is not about the tobbaco industry. Ya'll keep yelling at ConArb for bring up PVC in other threads. Now we have a PVC thread. Now, your trying to defeat the purpose of this thread; and taking it off subject. Are you just posting because your bored; or does the subject make you nervous; or is it just beyond your comprehension?
Uncle Bob
[ 11-09-2008, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Uncle Bob ]
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
permitguy
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-09-2008 09:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just find it interesting that the most outspoken critic of plastic we have here lists his main concern as cancer. After years of presenting himself as an advocate for fighting cancer-causing agents in our environment, he now admits to being a smoker. In keeping with the recent rationalizations some use to debate here, I think it only fair that people know about this when they read what they're going to see. To be perfectly clear, there must be financial motives in play with this issue that we don't know about.
I will post nothing more on the subject of this hypocrisy, and beg your pardon for the interruption. I'll urge others to keep it strictly on the topic of plastic from here on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1726 | From: Metro Denver, CO | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
constructionarbitrator
Frequent Contributor
Member Rated:
posted 11-09-2008 09:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uncle Bob:
There is no doubt in my mind that the stuff is going to become illegal in this country, and one of the reasons for the sprinkler manufacturers' frantic push for mandating sprinklers now is to get them approved based upon the low prices of PVC. Once they're mandated and PVC is no longer available they've got them in the code and builders will have to use copper pipe to comply with the mandate, then say sorry folks, it wasn't illegal when we quoted you $3 a foot.
I have installed all kinds of asbestos in my day, and watched my plumbers pound lead on the oakum in the hubs of cast iron pipes before someone invented no-hub cast iron. I bet you melted your share of lead in your early days.
Permitguy use to be a good guy, I can only speculate that he's suffering some brain damage from all the water he's consumed running through CPVC pipe.
Permitguy:
I don't even want to tell you what it costs me to get my cigars hand-rolled up in Sacramento by Cuban expatriots so I can be sure there are no chemicals added as in store bought cigars. Two of my monitors are currently out being rebuilt now at a cost much higher than buying new ones, but I had them custom made with no plastic so I have to have them rebuilt periodically. It's getting real hard to live plastic free, but I try.
--------------------
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic consequences of the lie. Joseph Goebbels
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2436 | From: Martinez, CA | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged |
packsaddle
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-10-2008 02:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i try living plastic-free, but they keep sending me those great offers in the mail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1559 | From: Latitude: 25° 13' North / Longitude: 55° 17' East | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged |
rjj
Frequent Contributor
Member Rated:
posted 11-10-2008 04:01 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose this ran on 60 minutes last night. I don't watch a great deal of TV, but most often watch part of that show.
This is a disgrace.
I have to add a bite of thanks to UB and CA on the PVC and cpvc issues and cancer. Now that I, have read some other reports, I guess I have to bite the bullet and remove the cpvc from my own home.
We just had a big recycle day here and the parking lot was full of computers and TVs, I have know idea where they went once they left here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1301 | From: S.Eastern PA | Registered: Jan 2008 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-10-2008 06:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have argued with ConArb about PVC from way back when. When I started plumbing back in the early 70s; PVC pipe was just becoming a popular replacement for drain lines and exterior water lines. In fact When I took my journeyman plumber's exam; the Texas State Plumbing Examiners Board required us to cut cast iron pipe with a hammer and chisel; connect cast iron with lead and oakem; and properly cut and thread galvaized iron pipe (correctly measuring for 45 degree angle installation) and the correct number of threads. "Wiping lead traps" was even on the exam; but, was about to be dropped from the exam.
Copper was the perfered material for water lines at that time and was eventually replaced by plastics because "it was cheaper and eaiser to use".
It wasn't until I got fed up with "ConArbs Crap"; that I decided to investigate PVC pipe; and prove him wrong. I failed miserably.
Polyvinyl cloride is breaking down and leaching toxins everywhere.
Time to make breakfast. Still learning; and use cast iron skillet. I have enough aluminum in my system to last me a lifetime (pun intended).
Uncle Bob
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
jim baird
Frequent Contributor
Member Rated:
posted 11-10-2008 06:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...This thread is not about the tobbaco industry. Ya'll keep yelling at ConArb for bring up PVC in other threads. Now we have a PVC thread. Now, your trying to defeat the purpose of this thread..."
Guys,
Why don't we start an environmental hazards thread?
Pretty much everything in the environment causes either cancer or some other malady that results finally in death.
I think it was Joseph Campbell who said that life on earth consisted of a slow and continuous process of dismemberment, just like the ritual sacrifice of kings that allegedly went on in ancient times.
--------------------
IRC Combination, ICC Commercial Building, ICC Plans Examiner, SBCCI Housing Rehab
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1430 | From: Danielsville, GA USA | Registered: Oct 2003 | IP: Logged |
Uncle Bob
Frequent Contributor
posted 11-10-2008 06:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim,
"Why don't we start an environmental hazards thread?" Go for it.
Why is everyone so paranoid about discussing PVC and the dangers of Polyvinyl Cloride?
Tell ya what; I'm going to delete this thread (after saving it on my hard drive); and I don't want to hear a peep out of you people when ConArb drops bombards you with PVC dangers on your other topics!
But, first, breakfast. I smell bacon burning.
Uncle Bob
[ 11-10-2008, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Uncle Bob ]
--------------------
RETIRED INSPECTOR: Good Inspectors don't know all the answers; they are just good at finding them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3338 | From: Central Texas | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged |
Quick Reply
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
Instant Graemlins
Printer-friendly view of this topic Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Code Chat -------------------- Building and Residential Codes -- Non-Structural Issues Building and Residential Codes -- Structural Issues Electrical Codes Fire Codes Plumbing, Mechanical and Fuel Gas Codes Existing Building Codes Alternative/Complex Designs & Performance Codes Other Codes and Related Regulations Category: Other Topics -------------------- Open Discussion for Building Industry Topics Building Products Software Support ICC Web Site Suggestions Category: Regional Chapter Communication Forums -------------------- Pacific Southwest (Region I) Pacific Northwest (Region II) ICC Upper Great Plains (Region III) ICC Heartland Region IV Coalition ICC Midwest Region V ICC Northeast Regional Coalition (Region VI) Region VII of the International Code Council ICC Region VIII Gulf Coast (Region IX) ICC Region X Coalition Rocky Mountain (Region XI) International (Region XII)
Contact Us | ICC Home Page
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3
Home | Membership | ICC Store | Codes & Standards | Government Relations
Training | Certification & Testing | Public Safety | Jobs & Code Talk | Newsroom & Magazine
Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Subsidiaries: ICC Evaluation Service | International Accreditation Service | ICC Foundation
© 2008 International Code Council
I have quite a few more of these threads I saved to my home PC (this is from my laptop),
By the way; where is Permit Guy? I miss him.
Haven't heard from Peach in a while either.Uncle Bob
Uh I mean packsaddle your still there 
I could only get the first 50. You would have to log on under you old name and password to get all the ones you started