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Occupancy Classification?

D

docgj

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
123
Location
PA
Take out resturant/sandwich shop. Only 16 X 24. There will not be any patrons in the building. What is everyones thoughts on occ class? B? A-2? I thought I had seen a thread a while back but a search came up blank.

Also I'm telling them that they need restroom facilities. Is that correct? Owner not wanting to provide restroom.

docgj
 
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Type "B" occupancy. Minimum of one Accessible restroom required for the employees

( Section 1109.2 in the `06 IBC ).



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b occupancy and one unisex accessible restroom to be shared by employees and patrons. too bad about what the owner wants!
 
Thanks guys! Glad to know once in a while I get one right!

Blind squirrel still gets the acorn.

docgj
 
If it's open to the public (it is) then the public gets to use the restrooms - without travelling through kitchen, storage, etc. Tell the owner that if no patrons are going to be in there, then he's not going to be in business very long!
 
B by excepiton in code

If this is a part of a shopping center and restroom facilities are provided in the shopping center, based on distance, you may or maynot need restrooms in the suite.
 
Do the patrons pick up the sandwiches through an outside window, or do they enter the building to buy the sandwiches at an inside counter?

If the latter, then I'll have to go against the grain and say it is an M occupancy. Since there is apparently no seating/eating in the building, I don't think the A-2/B question applies here. What is the difference in customer activity/risk whether the customers go inside to buy sandwiches or cell phones?
 
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What is the difference in customer activity/risk whether the customers go inside to buy sandwiches or cell phones?
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I would say the [ usually larger ] volume of merchandise in the tenant space

/ store and the amount of customers in that space / store.

I still vote Type "B" occupancy! :D

Besides, at 16' x 24', the occ. load is already limited to 3.84 persons =

4.00 total persons [ using the "B" occ. ]. If using the "M" occ., then

the occ. load would be 1.92 persons = 2.0 total persons. Kinda tight

spaces for customers and high volume merchandise stocking.

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I'll be contrary also. It's an M (or a B). Design professional's choice. I have designed a half dozen or more carry-out pizza shops over the last 10 years. As architect, I have classified them as mixed use - M, F-1 (kitchen), S-1 (walk-in), most less than 12 occupants even with a couple benches for waiting. - never been questioned or adjudicated. No public toilet(s) , here in Ohio public toilets are not required for mercantile occ. load less than 50.
 
"B"... I'll waffle a little on the required restroom; their has to be one for the employees anyway, and it can't open to the food prep area. Pretty small space to start with, so put it in the customer area.
 
To answer some of the questions... There will not be any customers in the building. All service will be done at through a service window.

Sounds like it will be a "B" with a rest room.

docgj
 
Sounds like the "Sonic Drive-in" type arguement. If they order thru a window and no outside tables then no customer restroom. If they enter thru a door to order or outside tables then restrooms needed.

B occupancy.
 
Fred - With all due respect, where in 2902.4 does it say that if the public doesn't enter, then restrooms aren't required? The way I read it is... "...shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization..." Both the take-out place above and the Sonic are intended for public utilization, and therefore require public restrooms.

The "in" in the code section above refers to the toilet facilities, not the public use. In otherwords, the toilets shall be provided IN the structures and tenant spaces if the structure or tenant space is inted for public utilization. (If the public utilizes it, but doesn't go in, then provide the toilet IN the structure.)
 
This is clearly the intent of IPC to provide Public toilet facilities

Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization. Public toilet facilities shall be located not more than one story above or below the space required to be provided with public toilet facilities and the path of travel to such facilities shall not exceed a distance of 500 feet
 
Ok just to play Devil's advocate show me any way of having an occupant load if there is only a kitchen and no way customers can enter the building? That they do need one for the staff but not the general public, IMHO. Put a table outside and the rules change.

Just for the record when Sonic wanted to play that I said no and they provide outside restrooms.
 
FredK said:
Ok just to play Devil's advocate show me any way of having an occupant load if there is only a kitchen and no way customers can enter the building? That they do need one for the staff but not the general public, IMHO. Put a table outside and the rules change. Just for the record when Sonic wanted to play that I said no and they provide outside restrooms.
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It is clearly the intent of IPC to provide Public toilet facilities
 

No public requirement here thanks to the state.

(19) Subsection 2902.4, Required Public Toilet Facilities, is deleted in its

entirety.

But you are still required to have employee toilet facilities

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mtlogcabin said:

No public requirement here thanks to the state.

(19) Subsection 2902.4, Required Public Toilet Facilities, is deleted in its

entirety.

But you are still required to have employee toilet facilities

​
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Did they also delete the International Plumbing Code?

It is clearly the intent of IPC to provide Public toilet facilities
 
We use the UPC and it has been ammended by the state. A Business may keep its restrooms under lock and key. If your serve food or achohol for consumption on premises you have to provide restrooms. If not consumed on premises and a non-assembly building then the discretion of the AHJ only one unisex may be required.

For what was described in the OP or the Sonics, Checkers or in our area Frugals only restrooms for the employess are required.
 
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High Desert,



The minimum occupant load is also for the employees. ;)



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