Occupancy for small conference/break rooms

[AegisFPE]

mtlogcabin scored a blow by providing some use of the chapter 3 exceptions if they aren't for occupancy. I'm still winning this debate on points though. Everybody else is saying the small accessory conf/break rooms are assembly occupancy just because they are. The world at large does not associate the word assembly with conference room - the basis has to come from chapter 3.

I don't know who the "Everybody else" is that you are referencing. The overwhelming majority I see posting concur that accessory conf/break rooms are business occupancy because that is how Exception 3 in Section 302.1 defines them.

When you look at Table 1004.1.1 for the occupant load of a Kitchen, the space is not automatically a Group K, nor a Library Group L, or a Pool Group P.

Along those lines, just because the "Function of Space" from the table is Assembly does not necessarily make it Group A.

 

[steveray]

And H and U are not even mentioned in 1004.1.2....

I don't know who the "Everybody else" is that you are referencing. The overwhelming majority I see posting concur that accessory conf/break rooms are business occupancy because that is how Exception 3 in Section 302.1 defines them.When you look at Table 1004.1.1 for the occupant load of a Kitchen, the space is not automatically a Group K, nor a Library Group L, or a Pool Group P.

Along those lines, just because the "Function of Space" from the table is Assembly does not necessarily make it Group A.

 

[tg947]

I give up.

Though nobody could answer the question because everyone (yes everyone) keeps saying occupancy and use are different. Forget occupancy for a minute. why is the use 'Assembly'? Where are you getting that connection or definition?

 

[steveray]

Tables and chairs......a larger amount of people gathering in a space than you typical office environment.....

I give up.Though nobody could answer the question because everyone (yes everyone) keeps saying occupancy and use are different. Forget occupancy for a minute. why is the use 'Assembly'? Where are you getting that connection or definition?

 

[Mech]

Table 1004.1.1 - the column heading reads "Function of Space." What is the function of a break room or conference room? To assemble in. To gather in.

Assembly without fixed seats

Unconcentrated (tables and chairs) ---> Furniture found in a break room and also in a conference room.

Concentrated (chairs only - not fixed) ---> Furniture found in a conference room once the tables are removed and additional chairs are brought in for a larger crowd.

Section 1004.1 " . . . Where an intended use is not listed in Table 1004.1.1, the building official shall establish a use based on a listed use that most nearly resembles the intended use."

I do not remember who all the plan reviewers are on this site, but you could ask them. They will probably tell you assembly.

 

[north star]

= +

From the `06 IBC, Section 302.1 General:

"Structures or portions of structures shall be classified with respect to

occupancy in one or more of the groups listed below........A room or space

that is intended to be occupied at different times for different purposes

shall comply with all of the requirements that are applicable to each of

the purposes for which the room or space will be occupied......Structures

with multiple occupancies or uses shall comply with :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_5_par035.htm')'>Section 508.....Where

a structure is proposed for a purpose that is not specifically provided for

in this code, such structure shall be classified in the group that the

occupancy most nearly resembles, according to the fire safety and

relative hazard involved."

You mentioned in your OP that it would be a a Small Conference / Break

Room, less than 750 sq. ft........The word "Conference" typically means a

gathering of persons, ...an "Assembly" of persons if you will......Then by

that definition and use of the space, ...we then go to Table 1004.1.1 to

obtain the sq. ft. amount to use for calculations........In your opinion

...what "Function of Space" most closely resembles the use of your

Small Conference / Break Room, ...a "Business" use [ from Section 304.1 ],

or an "Assembly" use?

Also, ...don't give up so easily!

+ =

 

[AegisFPE]

What occupant load to assign to accessory conference rooms or break rooms in a B occupancy less than 750 sq ft? There was a previous discussion which I can't find where the consencus was that the occupancy of these spaces should be at an Assembly rate instead of Business... Can anyone agree with me?

I completely agree with you TG that the conference room less than 750 sq ft is a Group B occupancy, or part of the occupancy in which it is located per Exception 3 to 303.1.

However, if you are going to tell me that the occupant load factor of that conference room depends on the main occupancy classification of the building (e.g. 1/100 in an office building, 1/500 in a warehouse, or 1/30 if on the ground floor of mercantile but 1/60 if on an upper story) then you are on your own.

1004.1.1 makes it clear that the occupant load factor is to be assigned based on the intended use of the space. The first column of Table 1004.1.1 has the heading "Function of Space," not "Occupancy Classification."

Therefore, no matter what occupancy group the accessory room is in, the accessory space should have an occupant load based on the functional use of the space.

If you are considering non-simultaneous use within the building, then you could seek to apply the Exception to 1004.1.1, but that is separate from the prescribed occupant load.

 

[kdominguez]

Hi,

I came across this forum and I hope this helps- this is the logic that I use when doing a code analysis.

1. A building's Occupancy Classification has nothing to do with a room's Function of Space
2. Say you have a B occupancy office building, and within that building there are several 400 sf conference rooms. If you were to consider those conference rooms to have a "Business Area" Function of Space at 1 occupant per 100sf, you would only be able to fit 4 people in the conference room legally! Obviously a 400 sf conference room needs to hold a lot more people than 4, which is why using the "Assembly without Fixed Seating-Tables and Chairs" Function of Space at 1 occupant per 15NSF gives you a much more realistic occupancy allowance for that room.

 

[Sifu]

FYI, a code change proposal has been submitted for the 2024 IBC regarding this topic. The basic of it is to meet in the middle and count the OL at 30 gross for rooms under 750sf². For rooms over that area limitation is refers back to assembly. I don't know if it passed on final vote. See group A, E8-21. If anyone knows whether it passed please inform us. I personally think it is a good change.

 

[Sifu]

FYI, a code change proposal has been submitted for the 2024 IBC regarding this topic. The basic of it is to meet in the middle and count the OL at 30 gross for rooms under 750sf². For rooms over that area limitation is refers back to assembly. I don't know if it passed on final vote. See group A, E8-21. If anyone knows whether it passed please inform us. I personally think it is a good change.

Looks like it was disapproved.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

2009 IBC

tables and chairs but I'm arguing that the code says these are business (100 gross).

Thanks

Ocupancy (Chapter 3) and function of space from table 1004.1.2 (Chapter 10) have nothing to do with one another. These small conference rooms are indeed a Business Occupancy, but there function of space related to occupant load calculations is assembly tables and chairs.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

I give up.

Though nobody could answer the question because everyone (yes everyone) keeps saying occupancy and use are different. Forget occupancy for a minute. why is the use 'Assembly'? Where are you getting that connection or definition?

I Think your too fixated on the assembly portion of this argument. Lets take an example out of the code commentary. Say you have a college classroom building and to keep things simple each classroom has less than 50 occupants so we take assembly occupancies off the table. Now because it’s a college and above the 12h grade the building is a B occupancy (not an E occupancy). But when calculating the occupant load of each classroom you would not use the 1 per 150 business function of space because, you use the 1 per 20 educational classroom function of space because that how the room is being used.

 

[steveray]

Using the 30 OL you would now get to a 1500ft room before it might be considered an A use and/ or have 50 people and/or 2 exits....

But again, you need to look at the whole building to determine if it is a use of it's own or accessory (10%) or whatever...

 

[IJHumberson]

tg947- The world at large does not associate the word assembly with conference room - the basis has to come from chapter 3.

Chapter 3 deals with Occupancy Classification for which the major requirements (fire protection systems, height and area limitations) are determined, whereas occupant load requirements in Chapter 10 (Section 1004) are based on the "Function of Space". If the occupant load were to be based on the Occupancy Classification for the entire floor, then there would be a LOT of small restaurants that would have to be protected with automatic sprinkler systems because the total floor area is over 1,500 s.f., thereby creating an occupant load over 100. It works both ways - occupant load is not based on Occupancy Classification - it has to be based on the function of the space.

 

[shempzilla]

Just to keep this conversation going so many years later, I think the disconnect in the discussion is how to determine at what point a space crosses between functions, given that the code is pretty vague on the topic. We all agree that occupancy classification and function of space are separate items, but the information on how to classify the function of a given space is, in my opinion, often not very clear.

To continue with the original example, I think we would all agree that a single person office with a desk and chair is a "business area" function. If I add a couple chairs at the other side of the desk for someone else to come in and sit down, that's still "business area," right? What if I now add a small table off to the side with a couple more chairs? The fundamental question is, at what point does a space cross over from "business area" to "assembly without fixed seats"? There is no description or definition anywhere I have seen in the code that really identifies this, which is what raises the question.

OP's argument was, "You guys are all saying a conference room is an "assembly" function and not a "business area" function, but what is the basis for that belief?" I think there is more merit to it than most people were giving, because I agree it isn't clear.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

The reason I would call it assembly is because it would fit the definition of assembly:

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages
as·sem·bly
/əˈsemblē/
noun
1.
a group of people gathered together in one place for a common purpose.
"an assembly of scholars and poets"
Similar:
gathering
meeting
congregation
convention
rally
convocation
congress
council
synod
audience
assemblage
turnout
group
body
crowd
throng
company
get-together
2.
the action of gathering together as a group for a common purpose.
"a decree guaranteeing freedom of assembly"

 

[steveray]

Just to keep this conversation going so many years later, I think the disconnect in the discussion is how to determine at what point a space crosses between functions, given that the code is pretty vague on the topic. We all agree that occupancy classification and function of space are separate items, but the information on how to classify the function of a given space is, in my opinion, often not very clear.

To continue with the original example, I think we would all agree that a single person office with a desk and chair is a "business area" function. If I add a couple chairs at the other side of the desk for someone else to come in and sit down, that's still "business area," right? What if I now add a small table off to the side with a couple more chairs? The fundamental question is, at what point does a space cross over from "business area" to "assembly without fixed seats"? There is no description or definition anywhere I have seen in the code that really identifies this, which is what raises the question.

OP's argument was, "You guys are all saying a conference room is an "assembly" function and not a "business area" function, but what is the basis for that belief?" I think there is more merit to it than most people were giving, because I agree it isn't clear.

Good first post, but there will never be a clear answer other than I will know it when I see it (probably 6-10 people-ish)...Other than clearly when you get to 750 ft or 50 people it goes full A...Unless it doesn't....

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Just to keep this conversation going so many years later, I think the disconnect in the discussion is how to determine at what point a space crosses between functions, given that the code is pretty vague on the topic. We all agree that occupancy classification and function of space are separate items, but the information on how to classify the function of a given space is, in my opinion, often not very clear.

To continue with the original example, I think we would all agree that a single person office with a desk and chair is a "business area" function. If I add a couple chairs at the other side of the desk for someone else to come in and sit down, that's still "business area," right? What if I now add a small table off to the side with a couple more chairs? The fundamental question is, at what point does a space cross over from "business area" to "assembly without fixed seats"? There is no description or definition anywhere I have seen in the code that really identifies this, which is what raises the question.

OP's argument was, "You guys are all saying a conference room is an "assembly" function and not a "business area" function, but what is the basis for that belief?" I think there is more merit to it than most people were giving, because I agree it isn't clear.

I don't see any disconnect. A conference room is a business occupancy unless the occupant load for that room exceeds 50 people. At that point, even though the building or story the conference room is located in is still classified as Business, the conference room itself crosses into Assembly and requires (for example) two remote means of egress from the room itself.

What about a conference room with seating for 25 people, but calculated at a ratio of 1 person per 150 square feet the occupant load would be (for example) five? The principle underlying the code has always been that Table 1004.5 establishes the minimum occupant load, but that the design (and applicable code requirements) are based on the occupant load calculated per Table 1004.5 or the actual occupant load, whichever is greater.

 

[Penguin87]

What occupant load to assign to accessory conference rooms or break rooms in a B occupancy less than 750 sq ft? There was a previous discussion which I can't find where the consencus was that the occupancy of these spaces should be at an Assembly rate instead of Business. I am convinced that the statements in 303.1 that such spaces shall be 'Business occupancy' do in fact pertain to the occupancy rate. Understanding that the table in 1004 dictates occupancy density the only way to determine if you are in an assembly or business space is via the definitions in chapter, which explicitly dictate these spaces to be Business. That makes sense with the limit being 750 sq ft since if you did populate the space at an assembly rate this would be the point where two exits are required. It also seems to be a way of the code recognizing such accessory spaces will have some of the occupants come from the main spaces. I'm outnumbered. Can anyone agree with me?

We would typically label it a "B" occupancy with an occupant load calculated based on the use - Table 1004.5

The occupant load would be 'assembly without fixed seats.' An office break room would typically be rated at unconcentrated (tables & chairs) at 15 SF net.

 

[Penguin87]

Just to add onto what people are saying, the building code is (obviously) separated into chapters that go from less specific to more specific information as it pertains to construction.
Generally each chapter, unless specifically referencing specific code sections, do not inform requirements in other chapters unless state otherwise.

So, chapter 1 scope and administration
chapter 2 definitions
chapter 3 occupancy classification of use - which informs chapter 5, which is your max floor area, building height & # of stories.
chapters 6-9 have to do with construction materials and fire protection
chapter 10 is egress and actual occupant loads, or how to get people safely out of each space in the building

Hope that helps

If you have questions you may want to consult with your local code official

Also, haha this is an old thread my goodness it rose from the dead