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OCCUPANCY LOAD FOR DANCE SCHOOL

O

Orlando

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Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
3
Location
South Florida
Hello
I am an architect in Florida and the FBC allows business occupancy for martial arts etc at 50sf/person.
My client has renovated a warehouse to run his small dancing school of max 15 kids per session (without a permit) He has been doing this for 9 years. The warehouse has a space that is 740sf. I am helping him legalize his space.
The building official (architecture) accepts B occupancy classification however the fire official says it either has to be business (150sf pp) or assembly (15sf pp). As a small business sole proprietor, the upgrades required for Assembly will be too expensive.
The official and fire marshall said they would allow me to put forth my best argument for a 50sf pp rating. Can anyone help me?
AI suggested using a concentrated business use designation. The fire official has never heard of this argument.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 
15 makes no sense to me. Where does that come from? Will there be tables and chairs that they dance around? If they made an argument for 5 I might at least know where they were coming from, though I don't see it that way. But 15 leaves me puzzled.

For teaching dance I would accept 50. But if they are determined call it a B (don't confuse classification with occupant load), with an occupant load of 49 (based on the 15). This is permitted as long as the code requirements are met for that number, unless there are requirements you can't meet, but I don't see that.

Maybe Steveray is right.
 
We permitted a dance studio a couple of years ago. It was a dance school, and we classified it as Group E. There were three individual studio spaces, an office, and a foyer/waiting area where the next class waited for the class(es) in session to end.

We used an occupancy of 1:50 for the studio spaces, but we also ensured the foyer was included at an occupancy factor of 1:5 to ensure sufficient egress capacity. Our laws require Fire Marshal sign-off before we can issue a permit, so the Fire Marshal was okay with this.

An occupant load factor of 1:15 is for seating at tables and chairs. There's no way that would or should apply to a dance studio.
 
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Sifu said:
15 makes no sense to me. Where does that come from? Will there be tables and chairs that they dance around? If they made an argument for 5 I might at least know where they were coming from, though I don't see it that way. But 15 leaves me puzzled.

For teaching dance I would accept 50. But if they are determined call it a B (don't confuse classification with occupant load), with an occupant load of 49 (based on the 15). This is permitted as long as the code requirements are met for that number, unless there are requirements you can't meet, but I don't see that.

Maybe Steveray is right.
Click to expand...
Maybe? I don’t insult easily…lol
 
Sifu said:
15 makes no sense to me. Where does that come from?
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing with you at all, but 15 is the OLF for stages and platforms, where dance performances occur. It is of course based on more dense performing arts and presentations, like concert band and graduations.
 
TheCommish said:
How does the FM, get to decide occupancy count?
Click to expand...

IFC section 1004.

It mirrors chapter 10 of the IBC. In jurisdictions that have adopted the IFC (which my state has), this means the BO and the FM have overlapping jurisdiction (just as we do in regard to sprinklers, detection systems, and alarms systems). I have been blessed in that everywhere I've worked I have had an excellent, cooperative working relationship with the Fire Marshal's office. I've spoken with other building officials who have not been so fortunate.

Any time I think something is questionable that might affect the Fire Marshal, I don't hesitate to pick up the phone to initiate a discussion. When an applicant requests a meeting, I always invite the Fire Marshal, too. It helps streamline the process and avoids miscommunication. The codes basically say the same thing, so the last thing I want to see is one office approving a set of plans and the other office rejecting the same set of plans. That makes everybody look stupid.
 
bill1952 said:
Not disagreeing with you at all, but 15 is the OLF for stages and platforms, where dance performances occur. It is of course based on more dense performing arts and presentations, like concert band and graduations.
Click to expand...

It's also based on the NET floor area of the stage -- which means first deducting the area occupied by sets and equipment. In a typical dance studio, it's usually just an open room so the net area effectively becomes the gross area. At that point, an occupant load factor of 1:15 makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
It's also based on the NET floor area of the stage -- which means first deducting the area occupied by sets and equipment. In a typical dance studio, it's usually just an open room so the net area effectively becomes the gross area. At that point, an occupant load factor of 1:15 makes no sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...
There's very little "sets and equipment" on a stage when it's in plan review. Current project has none - wall to wall to stage edge.

Do you really subtract the are of tables and desks in classrooms, etc., which are based on net OLF?
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
IFC section 1004.

It mirrors chapter 10 of the IBC. In jurisdictions that have adopted the IFC (which my state has), this means the BO and the FM have overlapping jurisdiction (just as we do in regard to sprinklers, detection systems, and alarms systems). I have been blessed in that everywhere I've worked I have had an excellent, cooperative working relationship with the Fire Marshal's office. I've spoken with other building officials who have not been so fortunate.
Click to expand...
I work in MA, were the BO is the determiner of occupancy count based on the RDPs submittal. We also work closely with our fire officials and have on going collaborative efforts and discussions for many projects.

My concern withe 2 officials haven jurisdiction on an item is like have 2 bosses who do you report to? Or mom and dad, if the one answers and the applicant does not like the answer then goes to the other and get a different answer then what.

As in the discourse we are having in this instance, the 2 offices disagree, lacking a single authority and their inability to agree, (hopefully they come to consensus) the customer is not being served. With at single authority as in MA, if the FD is aggrieved by the BO decision the FD or applicant may appeal to the board of appeals..
 
TheCommish said:
How does the FM, get to decide occupancy count?
Click to expand...
We have to comply with both codes; Florida Building Code (which is based on IBC) and Florida Fire Prevention Code (which is based on NFPA 1 and 101).


Orlando said:
AI suggested using a concentrated business use designation. The fire official has never heard of this argument.
Click to expand...
The lack of knowledge doesn't Suprise me. I've had similar issues in Orlando in the past. Concentrated Business use is in Table 7.3.1.2. on Page 101-85.
 
It seems simple to me. They are using an OL for tables and chairs or as Bill says a stage or platform. Are those depicted? Do the dancers dance on tables....maybe that's the problem.
 
so to clarify a few things. The Florida Building Code would allow this at occupancy class B, 50sf per person. The Fire code which is a combination of NFPA and florida specific rules, does not have this category. The space is completely open but only 22' wide. There is no room for a performance. This is a class for kids, and they need about 50sf to do the dance moves. Maximum class number of students in 9 years has been 11. I appreciate all your responses, and will study them tonight after work.
What is frustrating is that the building official says it 'may' be a class B but defers to the fire official, who has always classed these types of spaces as Assembly. But the fire official also defers-- to the fire marshall, who seems a bit flexible or at least willing to listen. They agreed to listen to my best argument.
 
101 is probably being used as exercise area without equipment at 15 rather than 50 w/equipment. I've run into this issue with gymnasiums in schools
 

1004.5 2023 FBC​

The number of occupants shall be computed at the rate of one occupant per unit of area as prescribed in Table 1004.5. For areas without fixed seating, the occupant load shall be not less than that number determined by dividing the floor area under consideration by the occupant load factor assigned to the function of the space as set forth in Table 1004.5. Where an intended function is not listed in Table 1004.5, the building official shall establish a function based on a listed function that most nearly resembles the intended function.

Exception: Where approved by the building official, the actual number of occupants for whom each occupied space, floor or building is designed, although less than those determined by calculation, shall be permitted to be used in the determination of the design occupant load.
 
Similar to 1004.5, FFPC 7.3.1.1 lets the AHJ set the occupant load, but based on OP's original statements it sounds like the FM is firm on calling this an exercise room without equipment, which is 1/15.

I'm assuming the money issue is related to restrooms, since even at 1/15 you're at 49 occupants, which should be easy to egress. So, tell them this space complies with the egress requirements of FFPC (assuming it does), and all other regulations are per FBC. FPC says to calculate it per FBC, not FFPC, and if the BO is ok with concentrated business, then calculate your fixtures at concentrated business.
 
It's a dance studio. Are there ballet barres on the walls? If so ==> "equipment."

What is a ballet dancers bar called? - Hosh Yoga

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IxiNPmB24A Ballet dancing is a beautiful and graceful art form that requires years of dedication and practice. Every ballet dancer knows the importance of the barre or the handrail around which they practice their moves. The barre in ballet dancing is a crucial...
www.hoshyoga.org www.hoshyoga.org
 
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