Occupancy Load

[jrosedesign]

This is an interesting concept. It's called 'Game Show Battle Rooms'.

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We may end up designing one of these and we've been debating the use group, and more importantly the occupant floor area allowance. It doesn't quite fit into anything in the IBC.
From what I can tell these rooms are about 30'x50'ish and there are multiple rooms per location (we're looking at a location with three rooms). There seems to be 10-15 actual people per room. The density is more similar to a fitness room or vocational class: 50 s.f. per person rather than typical assembly: 5-15 s.f. per person. This is essentially a studio without an audience or camera crew/TV staff. Has anyone run across anything like this?

We're in Massachusetts and our base code is IBC 2015. Thanks in advance.

 

[arwat23]

I have no personal experience with designing a space like that, but if I had to guess, it's be 15 Net at best (unconcentrated) or 11 Net (gaming floors - although 2015 IBC doesn't seem to have a definition for "gaming" like current IBC does). In the video, you can see what appear to be tables and chairs in the background, implying that those rooms are used for more than just this one "battle room" use, or they may allow additional people to watch which doesn't help your OL.

Its definitely not an exercise room, unless you can convince the BO that a game show setting is "exercise" (might be possible, but it might be a hard hill to climb).

Edit: There's also 2015 IBC 1004.1.2 exception, which states that the Building Official can approve a lower occupant load than what's required by Table 1004.1.2. Maybe try to use that to get out of any occupant load related issues you're concerned about.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

The down side to declaring a low occupant load is that the space gets posted for the low occupant load. Then what happens if/when you want to run an event that has more people than the space is posted for?

We just received something like this. A new tenant wants to rent an existing space, that was Mercantile, and use it as an A-3 multi-purpose event space (Assembly) -- without building any new toilet rooms. The calculated occupant load is 657 -- they're proposing to declare it for 188 occupants. I expect we'll be having some interesting discussions with the fire marshal about that, because if we allow it to be posted for a ridiculously low occupant load, it will be the fire marshal and his inspectors who will have to keep tabs on it going forward.

 

[jrosedesign]

The down side to declaring a low occupant load is that the space gets posted for the low occupant load. Then what happens if/when you want to run an event that has more people than the space is posted for?

We just received something like this. A new tenant wants to rent an existing space, that was Mercantile, and use it as an A-3 multi-purpose event space (Assembly) -- without building any new toilet rooms. The calculated occupant load is 657 -- they're proposing to declare it for 188 occupants. I expect we'll be having some interesting discussions with the fire marshal about that, because if we allow it to be posted for a ridiculously low occupant load, it will be the fire marshal and his inspectors who will have to keep tabs on it going forward.

Thank you, for sure that's something to consider.

 

[jrosedesign]

I have no personal experience with designing a space like that, but if I had to guess, it's be 15 Net at best (unconcentrated) or 11 Net (gaming floors - although 2015 IBC doesn't seem to have a definition for "gaming" like current IBC does). In the video, you can see what appear to be tables and chairs in the background, implying that those rooms are used for more than just this one "battle room" use, or they may allow additional people to watch which doesn't help your OL.

Its definitely not an exercise room, unless you can convince the BO that a game show setting is "exercise" (might be possible, but it might be a hard hill to climb).

Edit: There's also 2015 IBC 1004.1.2 exception, which states that the Building Official can approve a lower occupant load than what's required by Table 1004.1.2. Maybe try to use that to get out of any occupant load related issues you're concerned about.

Thank you, my understanding is that there are two teams of 5 or 6. An audience would certainly change the occupancy but I don't think that's the intent.

 

[jrosedesign]

This is a unique function where a limited number of people occupy a large room filled with large props. The same group of 20 people (max), move from prop to prop within the room. The general public is not walking around in this room or through this room. There is no audience; the business/financial logistics just don’t work.

This functions very differently from a casino, arcade, e-sports bar, or bowling alley where there’s a constant flow of people/groups coming and going.

I’m thinking it’s similar to Axe throwing or virtual golf rooms. It’s a large room with multiple large stations. You show up with your group, possibly get some instruction, then throw axes or whack virtual golf balls. Then you leave and the next group enters.

I do assume we’ll land on some type of assembly group.

 

[arwat23]

Thank you, my understanding is that there are two teams of 5 or 6. An audience would certainly change the occupancy but I don't think that's the intent.

From what I've experienced, the only way I can think of to allow you to lower the occupant load with be to post the max occupant load of the rooms and get the Building Official and/or Fire Marshal to agree with the reduced occupant load. Depending on the jurisdiction, this may be very easy.

This is a unique function where a limited number of people occupy a large room filled with large props. The same group of 20 people (max), move from prop to prop within the room. The general public is not walking around in this room or through this room. There is no audience; the business/financial logistics just don’t work.

There's your argument for the Building Official. IBC states that it's up to the Building Official to determine what on that occupant load table applies to that room, or if a reduced occupant load is allowable for a space with a unique function. This argument makes sense to me. That said, I've personally had a few issues with similar arguments. One common issue I run into is conference rooms and break rooms in office suites. I, and many others at my firm, have tried to argue that those rooms will only be occupied by the employees that are already counted for elsewhere in the building. Maybe a few members of the public at conference rooms, but not all the time, and never in the break room. It's never worked and we've needed to make every conference room and break room we've ever designed have a 15 net occupant load factor.

I’m thinking it’s similar to Axe throwing or virtual golf rooms. It’s a large room with multiple large stations. You show up with your group, possibly get some instruction, then throw axes or whack virtual golf balls. Then you leave and the next group enters.

It may a bit different than those spaces in practice though. With axe throwing or virtual golf rooms, those stations are often fixed in place. My understanding is that they don't typically move those stations around often, if ever, once they're in place.

In contrast, the props in this game room may need to be movable (different game types, setups, etc.). There is no clear, permanent distinction between where the occupied space ends and the unoccupied spaces begin. If I'm wrong and those props are fixed in place, then that may helps remove a lot of space from the occupant load count.

In CA (I assume this applies to IBC too), we can remove the space that's being taken up for fixed-in-place elements when determining the OL. For example, the area occupied by a fixed cabinet in a break room wouldn't count towards the occupant load since no one will be occupying that area. Perhaps removing fixed features like any fixed props will get you down to where you want to be, assuming the Building Official rejects your argument for a lower occupant load.

 

[mtlogcabin]

I would reach out to some of the locations on their website and talk with the AHJ. Most sites list 64+ people in a group, Dallas is 100+ in a group

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[jrosedesign]

From what I've experienced, the only way I can think of to allow you to lower the occupant load with be to post the max occupant load of the rooms and get the Building Official and/or Fire Marshal to agree with the reduced occupant load. Depending on the jurisdiction, this may be very easy.

There's your argument for the Building Official. IBC states that it's up to the Building Official to determine what on that occupant load table applies to that room, or if a reduced occupant load is allowable for a space with a unique function. This argument makes sense to me. That said, I've personally had a few issues with similar arguments. One common issue I run into is conference rooms and break rooms in office suites. I, and many others at my firm, have tried to argue that those rooms will only be occupied by the employees that are already counted for elsewhere in the building. Maybe a few members of the public at conference rooms, but not all the time, and never in the break room. It's never worked and we've needed to make every conference room and break room we've ever designed have a 15 net occupant load factor.

It may a bit different than those spaces in practice though. With axe throwing or virtual golf rooms, those stations are often fixed in place. My understanding is that they don't typically move those stations around often, if ever, once they're in place.

In contrast, the props in this game room may need to be movable (different game types, setups, etc.). There is no clear, permanent distinction between where the occupied space ends and the unoccupied spaces begin. If I'm wrong and those props are fixed in place, then that may helps remove a lot of space from the occupant load count.

In CA (I assume this applies to IBC too), we can remove the space that's being taken up for fixed-in-place elements when determining the OL. For example, the area occupied by a fixed cabinet in a break room wouldn't count towards the occupant load since no one will be occupying that area. Perhaps removing fixed features like any fixed props will get you down to where you want to be, assuming the Building Official rejects your argument for a lower occupant load.

All great points! Thanks again.

 

[jrosedesign]

I would reach out to some of the locations on their website and talk with the AHJ. Most sites list 64+ people in a group, Dallas is 100+ in a group

Game Show Battle Rooms – You’re in the Game Show!

You're in the Game Show! Battle your friends, family and co-workers playing your favorite game show games in our custom game show arenas. Book your tickets now! (159 characters)

gameshowbattlerooms.com

Great idea! Thanks again.