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Occupancy Sign

Phil B

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Florida
I have an assembly space that has an occupancy of 21 based on its size and use. The one exit is a pair of doors that are less than 40' from any point in the space. Should the space's maximum occupancy sign indicate the calculated occupancy, or the maximum occupancy, which in this case would be 49 by virtue of the single exit?
Thanks.
 

mark handler

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It should be maximum occupancy

1004.9 Posting of Occupant Load

Every room or space which is used for assembly, classroom, dining, drinking, or similar purposes having an occupant load of 50 or more shall have the occupant load of the room or space posted in a conspicuous place, near the main exit or exit access doorway from the room or space, for the intended configurations. Posted signs shall be of an approved legible permanent design and shall be maintained by the owner or the owner's authorized agent.
 

Phil B

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It should be maximum occupancy

1004.9 Posting of Occupant Load

Every room or space which is used for assembly, classroom, dining, drinking, or similar purposes having an occupant load of 50 or more shall have the occupant load of the room or space posted in a conspicuous place, near the main exit or exit access doorway from the room or space, for the intended configurations. Posted signs shall be of an approved legible permanent design and shall be maintained by the owner or the owner's authorized agent.

Thank you, and I agree about the sign should show the maximum, but the Florida code does not have the statement re: 50 or more, hence the question.
 

e hilton

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Virginia
Mark I don’t understand your answer. First, based on the section you posted, he doesn’t need a sign ... right? Second ... why use the maximum value? It seems that the intended use of a space drives most of the applicable codes, along with construction type, so why wouldn’t you use that for the sign?
And can you explain how a space can have two values so far apart. I’m guessing part of the answer is due to the small size.
 

mtlogcabin

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Less than 50 is not an assembly occupancy under the code unless Fl amended this section

303.1.1 Small buildings and tenant spaces.
A building or tenant space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons shall be classified as a Group B occupancy.

303.1.2 Small assembly spaces.
The following rooms and spaces shall not be classified as Assembly occupancies:

1. A room or space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
 

Phil B

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Florida
Less than 50 is not an assembly occupancy under the code unless Fl amended this section

303.1.1 Small buildings and tenant spaces.
A building or tenant space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons shall be classified as a Group B occupancy.

303.1.2 Small assembly spaces.
The following rooms and spaces shall not be classified as Assembly occupancies:

1. A room or space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
My interpretation is that the space in question is not an accessory use to another occupancy and hence wouldn't qualify by virtue of the wording where it says "...less than 50 persons and accessory to another...". Right?
 

cda

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My interpretation is that the space in question is not an accessory use to another occupancy and hence wouldn't qualify by virtue of the wording where it says "...less than 50 persons and accessory to another...". Right?


If you want to post a sign, post a sign.. Have seen it done for less than 50.

But do not post for more than people you can stuff in the room.


There is a little difference between 21 and 49.


How many sq ft is the room?????????
 

Phil B

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If you want to post a sign, post a sign.. Have seen it done for less than 50.

But do not post for more than people you can stuff in the room.


There is a little difference between 21 and 49.


How many sq ft is the room?????????
I'm just going to post for the 49. The space is over 750 sf (which is also a qualifier in the FBC for classifying Assembly as Business), but less than 1,000, final to be determined. Thank you all for your input.
 

mark handler

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Mark I don’t understand your answer. First, based on the section you posted, he doesn’t need a sign ... right? Second ... why use the maximum value? It seems that the intended use of a space drives most of the applicable codes, along with construction type, so why wouldn’t you use that for the sign?
And can you explain how a space can have two values so far apart. I’m guessing part of the answer is due to the small size.

Intended occupancy is not the occupancy. The code is always based on the Maximums and Minimums, not what the tenant is thinking at the minute.
And as mtlogcabin has stated "Less than 50 is not an assembly occupancy" and does not need any sign

OCCUPANT LOAD. The number of persons for which the means of egress of a building or portion thereof is designed.
 

cda

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I'm just going to post for the 49. The space is over 750 sf (which is also a qualifier in the FBC for classifying Assembly as Business), but less than 1,000, final to be determined. Thank you all for your input.


Ok how did you come up with 21?

Lots of tables and chairs??

What is the space used for?
 

classicT

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I'm just going to post for the 49. The space is over 750 sf (which is also a qualifier in the FBC for classifying Assembly as Business), but less than 1,000, final to be determined. Thank you all for your input.
NO!!!

If the FBC requires that you post the OL, you post the number calculated by the design. This should be shown on the CO. Per the OP, the OL is 21.

Just because you could go up to 49 with a single exit, does not mean that is the OL. Other factors such as fixture counts are at play.
 

Tim Mailloux

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Hartford CT
NO!!!

If the FBC requires that you post the OL, you post the number calculated by the design. This should be shown on the CO. Per the OP, the OL is 21.

Just because you could go up to 49 with a single exit, does not mean that is the OL. Other factors such as fixture counts are at play.

How do you get an occupant load of 21 people in an assembly type space that is over 750SF? At a minumim you should be using the 1 person per 15SF tables and chairs load factor and coming up with 50 of more people.
 

RLGA

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I agree, something is not right here. If over 750 sq. ft., then it will have an occupant load over 49--thus it is an assembly occupancy and must have two means of egress plus the maximum occupant load sign.

If the building official approved an occupant load less than 50 per the Exception to Section 1004.5, then it is not to be considered an assembly space, and no signage is required. That is unless a sign was made a condition of approval for the reduced occupant load by the building official; in which case, the sign should indicate the occupant load approved for the space.

Although the door could handle an occupant load of 49, the building's means of egress system is based on total occupant load (also the plumbing fixtures as previously mentioned). If this is the only space in question, then the extra 28 occupants probably will not have a significant impact on either the MOE or plumbing fixtures; but if there are multiple spaces like this, then those extra occupants will add up and create a problem.
 

classicT

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How do you get an occupant load of 21 people in an assembly type space that is over 750SF? At a minumim you should be using the 1 person per 15SF tables and chairs load factor and coming up with 50 of more people.
I didn't come to that OL. The OP indicated it as so.
I have an assembly space that has an occupancy of 21 based on its size and use.
That said, I agree that something appears to be amiss. But we do not have enough info to say for sure. The poster has not clarified the use, other than indicating it is either an assembly or business use, and that it is somewhere between 750-1000sf.
The space is over 750 sf (which is also a qualifier in the FBC for classifying Assembly as Business), but less than 1,000,
His post (above) seems to be possibly one of the points of confusion. Being that his space is greater than 750sf, he believes it to be an assembly use. See IBC Section 303.1.2 #2 (below). However, as the OL is <50, 303.1.2 #1 would apply. Purely speculation, but I imagine that this is a restaurant, which is an A-2 use. However, as the space is small, and given OLF of 200gross for the kitchen and 15net for unconcentrated table and chair dining area, that the total OL is 21. With an OL of 21, 303.1.2 #1 will get the space classified as a B use.

303.1.2 Small Assembly Spaces
The following rooms and spaces shall not be classified as Assembly occupancies:
  1. A room or space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
  2. A room or space used for assembly purposes that is less than 750 square feet (70 m2) in area and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
 

classicT

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Purely speculation, but I imagine that this is a restaurant, which is an A-2 use. However, as the space is small, and given OLF of 200gross for the kitchen and 15net for unconcentrated table and chair dining area, that the total OL is 21. With an OL of 21, 303.1.2 #1 will get the space classified as a B use.

303.1.2 Small Assembly Spaces
The following rooms and spaces shall not be classified as Assembly occupancies:
  1. A room or space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
  2. A room or space used for assembly purposes that is less than 750 square feet (70 m2) in area and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
As an example (these are made up numbers)

Tenant space is 800sf
Kitchen takes up 400sf, and therefore has an OL of 2.
Balance of space is 400sf, and is divided up between 250sf of dining space consisting of unconcentrated tables and chairs (OL of 17), and 150sf of restroom/storage area/etc. (OL of 2).
Total OL is 21.
 

mtlogcabin

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Assembly is "net" floor area the rest is gross floor area. It can also be based on fixed seating. Pretty easy to have a 1,000 sq ft space with a small OL as the examples above have shown
 

RLGA

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Ty J., that makes sense, but the OP did state "I have an assembly space..." and not an "assembly building" or a "tenant space." The kitchen, restrooms, and storage area would not be considered "assembly space." It just might be a matter of the OP using the words "assembly space" loosely and was meant to refer to an entire tenant space or building.

Until we get some clarity, this one will remain a mystery.
 

Tim Mailloux

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Ty J., that makes sense, but the OP did state "I have an assembly space..." and not an "assembly building" or a "tenant space." The kitchen, restrooms, and storage area would not be considered "assembly space." It just might be a matter of the OP using the words "assembly space" loosely and was meant to refer to an entire tenant space or building.

Until we get some clarity, this one will remain a mystery.

I read assembly space to mean an assembly space within a larger space, such as a conference room. More clarity is needed.
 

Phil B

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Sep 15, 2018
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Florida
Sorry for the confusion. The numbers I was suing were for a 1,050 sf Fitness Room. At 50 sf per person (Table 1004.1.2), the occupancy would have been 21. (It ended up a little smaller). It was classified as A-3.
 
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