Oklahoma Earthquake

[V767]

I may be wrong, but I remember that area of the U.S. to have quite a few focal points of plate movement, hence the Rockies not being that far from the region, relatively of course.

Back in my home town, the city was close to an actual fault line, a small one at that, but when you see a map of where fault lines are, it is kind of creepy. I remember Oklahoma and slightly north of it have a lot of red lines on the map. But that was years ago, so it is a little fuzzy remembering it exactly.

 

[mark handler]

Conarb

Getting back to your statement of costs based on seismic issues, If you build your "new" house based on conventional framing, your costs will not be in the hundreds and sheet count will not hit 100 pages.

Ask your Engineer Which items Wind govern and which items seismic governs.

 

[beach]

We have an Architect/engineer here that told me, after I asked him why he "overdesigned" them so much..... he stated: "After a major earthquake, all you are going to see are my homes on the horizon, my clients want the safest home possible and are willing to pay for it"

 

[mark handler]

We have an Architect/engineer here that told me, after I asked him why he "overdesigned" them so much..... he stated: "After a major earthquake, all you are going to see are my homes on the horizon, my clients want the safest home possible and are willing to pay for it"

$1,000 to $2,000+ a square foot homes...? Per Conarb....

I think not

 

[conarb]

Beech:

That's the case here, the owner wants as safe a house as possible, and the healthiest house as possible, we had wood decks at one point, when I told him that under the Wildlands-Urban Interface Code we were going to have to use fire-treated wood he told me to take the decks off and build fully enclosed fireproof patio structures, he wanted no chemicals used in the construction of the home. He has reason for concern, there are several new homes in his area that have been vacated with lawsuits going on because of the Green Code and "sick home" syndrome. Due to the Green Codes and energy codes hitting us at the same time we are building a generation of sick homes, just like the "sick office building" problems of the 80s, how soon people forget.

Mark:

If we had used conventional framing we would have ended up with homes like the two I posted above, there is no way we could have obtained the walls of glass we have, many are going to steel framing now and it's coming out cheaper in the long run, but most are lightweight steel. The cost of the steel erected is about the same as Simpson and Hardy hardware combined with shear wall sheathing.

 

[mark handler]

Dick

You blame everyone else for your choices

Walls of glass is not conventional framing.

In or out of Earthquake country, you designed a taj mahal.

Don't blame the code for the framing requirements for "walls of glass".

 

[conarb]

Mark:

The California lifestyle is walls of glass, glass is also energy efficient, in Europe the award winning green buildings are all glass.

 

[mark handler]

The code is not to blame, your choices

 

[beach]

Exactly! It's all relative, if the client couldn't afford it..... you wouldn't be building that type and style of structure. Same thing at the beach, if you want the view... you pay for it! If not, move a few miles inland and buy a tract house that you can afford

 

[V767]

We had a 4.5 earthquake about 6 miles east of Norman, Oklahoma (where I live), about 9 am this morning. I heard a loud noise; like an explosion; that last for about 30 seconds; and, my building shook for about the same time. Wow, I've never been in an earthquake before. Police thought that there was an explosion and they were running all over the area with sirens blaring. No real damage has been reported so far; but, what a ride.We have been getting a lot of smaller earthquakes in Central Oklahoma (2.4) in recent months. It was quite an experience.

Uncle Bob

Funny that this story should run today in the Oklahoman.

V767

 

[texasbo]

Funny that this story should run today in the Oklahoman. V767

I guess the assumption is that since the codes are adopted, the buildings magically get built in compliance with those codes. I can't tell you how many times we request the required setback survey, and the builder stares blankly and says "we gave you a dimensioned site plan when we applied for the permit"... Sometimes people just can't comprehend that there is often a difference between intent and reality.

Charles Graham was one of my design studio professors when I was in architecture school.

 

[Uncle Bob]

V767,

That article about Oklahoma homes built to withstand high winds and earthquakes is pure crap. I've posted pictures here of their framing construction; and during the last high winds we had a few months ago; some newer homes slid off the slab (not secured to the slab). Oklahoma is really backwards when it comes to codes and code compliance. Oklahoma City still has the 1995 CABO for one and two family dwellings.

By the way, about that article and the comments from the Architect; that OU Architect's building on the OU campus had some cracking damage, as well as some other buildings; and they aren't sure how bad it is yet (I can see the building from my apartment). That whole article was just like the code compliance here; nothing but a facade.

Although, the earthquake was close; it only shook the buildings a little. The noise sounded like an huge explosion; and that scared people more than the actual quake. The biggest problems we have here are high winds and tornados. There is not much you can do to protect from tornados; but, high winds do a lot of damage here because of the lousy construction in this State; especially to homes.

Uncle Bob

 

[brudgers]

I guess the assumption is that since the codes are adopted, the buildings magically get built in compliance with those codes.

Brudgers' rule: Just because you got a permit doesn't mean you met code.

 

[conarb]

If anyone is interested my framing carpenter who did those jobs I linked above wrote an article for "This is Carpentry" called "Carpenters of Steel".

 

[Mark K]

Uncle Bob

The reality is that if the buildings were engineered you could prevent a lot of the wind damage. Which is more of a problem the cost of the engineering or the loss after a tornado.

Well engineered buildings built per the plans have done very well against tornados.

I would suggest that one of the reasons that houses are not engineered more often is not cost but is the resistance from developers, contractors, and tradesmen who do not want to change.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Mark K,

I agree; change is hard; especially for tradesmen. Most tradesmen; including me when I was a plumber; learn how to do their job and just want to become better at it without having to change the way we learned. Today, everything is changing too fast; especially the codes. I could plumb and home today (using the same materials and methods of that time); the same way I did 30 years ago; and it wouldn't have the problems that we see today.

I know the contractors and builders don't believe it; but, as an Inspector; I hate seeing many of the code changes as much as they do.

Uncle Bob

 

[brudgers]

Uncle BobThe reality is that if the buildings were engineered you could prevent a lot of the wind damage. Which is more of a problem the cost of the engineering or the loss after a tornado.

Well engineered buildings built per the plans have done very well against tornados.

I would suggest that one of the reasons that houses are not engineered more often is not cost but is the resistance from developers, contractors, and tradesmen who do not want to change.

Most tornado windloads are similar to those of hurricanes.

A few are well above that.

 

[ewenme]

Hear Hear Uncle Bob! I always feel like the bearer of bad tidings when I have to tell the contractors about code changes, especially the ones I disagree with. I have an ongoing discussion with my plumbing inspector: I would rather see copper water pipes than Pex, and he always wants to know why? It's just better, and the water doesn't taste funny after it sets in the pipes for awhile. I learned on copper, so obviously copper is best!

 

[Uncle Bob]

Ewenme live in our own little world; ain't it wonderful;

ain't it wonderful,

Uncle Bob

 

[Jobsaver]

The anti-profit, anti-corporation, environmentalist hippy leftists always try to attribute natural disasters to some form of human activity.Unfortunately for them, earthquakes are caused by movement of the Earth's tectonic plates.....period.

But, hey, if you want to believe it's our fault (ha!) that earthquakes occur, then don't let mere facts get in your way.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/hundreds-arkansas-earthquakes-linked-natural-gas-injection-wells/story?id=13431093&sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4db0fc38d040d936,0

 

[Yikes]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/hundreds-arkansas-earthquakes-linked-natural-gas-injection-wells/story?id=13431093&sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4db0fc38d040d936,0

Actually, it's well-documented that as the Boulder Dam (Hoover Dam) started to fill up in the 1930's, the weight of the water slightly bent the earth's crust and caused minor tremors in the area. That must've been unnerving to the engineers, as no one had ever designed anything like it before.