Old vs New

[georgia plans exam]

I thank God that the brave soldiers had the "warrior ethos" to defend our freedoms.

A celebration fit for the devil??? Wow. Just wow.

GPE

 

[mtlogcabin]

Placing wildly successful soldiers

Would you mind giving a definition of a "successful" soldier?

So, while there is a need to defend, it would be better, done quietly.

Any suggestions on how a whole army could accomplish such a task

Carlos Hathcock could come out of retirement and do it from a mile away

There are a lot of people who can shoot 1 mile. this guys uses a 7mm

http://www.autofixinfo.com/cKWaIHoWqRJyzG/One-mile-sniper-shot-7mm-Savage.html

 

[ICE]

I thank God that the brave soldiers had the "warrior ethos" to defend our freedoms.

How many thank God for brave suicide bombers? More than there are Americans. They do that because they lack cruise missiles.

A celebration fit for the devil??? Wow. Just wow.

Are you tired of viewing the wounded warrior commercials? The Devil never tires of it. A mostly destroyed veteran received a standing ovation at president Obama's state of the union address and the Devil was proudest of all. Did that torn up man sacrifice his well being for your freedom? Did it make any damned difference at all?

 

[ICE]

Would you mind giving a definition of a "successful" soldier?

I gave you an example. Much like Davy Crockett, the story is bigger than the man.

Any suggestions on how a whole army could accomplish such a task

A good start would be eliminating the habit of giving wars a video game name like Shock and Awe. The politicians and generals are so enamored of themselves that they they turned the last war into a reality TV show.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Did that torn up man sacrifice his well being for your freedom? Did it make any damned difference at all?

How do we know? You indicate that it made no difference at all.

Do you believe any part of your doing your job makes a difference in the life of the people who occupy those building? You probably believe so and rightly so, because you are very good at your job and have corrected many violations that could have resulted in death of property damage. You can see the results of your job

Am I tired of the wounded warrior commercials? No! There is a responsibility to help take care of these men and women that goes beyond what limited benefits the government provides. The commercials keep the reality of war in the eyes of the public, and hopefully the donations to help the veterans.

A soldier does his "job" every day and believes like you that his "job" makes a difference in this world. Does that soldier know for sure if they made a difference? No. But he did his job and he did it proudly. If someone wants to praise or honor him and he is willing to accept that, that is his choice. Your choice is to change the channel

 

[ICE]

That soldier most likely believes that his sacrifice was worth it. First of all, if the military did it's job and re-socialized him properly, there is no question in what's left of his mind. Secondly, he's given the attention of the nation. Most importantly, for him or the American people to think otherwise would be a devastating realization. So yes he is convinced that he made a difference and fought to protect our freedom.

I am not convinced.

World War ll was fought for a valid reason. We were attacked. The world was headed for disaster.

Every war since then has been fomented by capitalists. War is a business.

We have a huge military industry. Is it any wonder that we will use the weapons that are produced.

When the warehouses are full of stuff and there is no space to store more.....we go to war.

and believes like you that his "job" makes a difference in this world

Rarely do I think that my efforts make any difference. The truth of the matter is that I am a fly in the ointment.

 

[conarb]

Tiger:

People frequnetly cite Eisenhower's military industrial complex statement from his farewell address, but they take it out of context by not citing the rest of it:

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system – ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society. ¹

I have to wonder what Eisenhower would think today with the loss of our freedoms and the totalitarian society we live in? Just look at the aftermath of Johnson's Civil Rights law, as I posted before nothing but a racist attempt to get votes for his party. Our entire educational system is corrupt, our public schools have been long been held in disrespect, but now even the elite schools have collapsed in diversity.

¹ http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm

 

[mtlogcabin]

World War II was the last declared war. All other military actions since then have been UN or Congress authorized military interventions. Many military interventions have been authorized by the President's prior to congressional approval. If we followed the constitution this should never happen.

Some of these interventions may have been described as helping a repressed people such as Bosnia, or stopping the advancement of communism, Korea, Vietnam. Like you I am skeptical of the true reasons but the soldier has no choice, he can't quite his job or refuse to do what is assigned without severe consequences and that alone is the reason not to blame the soldier for the politicians decisions that get them involved in other areas of this world.

We must always remember it is the elected politicians who authorize our soldiers to engage militarily in some foreign country. It is the politician who decides are we going for the "victory" or are we just there to do battle.

It is never the decision of the individual soldier

When a country enters a "war" it should do so with no other object then to defeat the enemy and win as quickly as possible. Any other objective is not sufficient.

 

[ICE]

Like you I am skeptical of the true reasons but the soldier has no choice, he can't quite his job or refuse to do what is assigned without severe consequences and that alone is the reason not to blame the soldier for the politicians decisions that get them involved in other areas of this world.

I don't take issue with individuals that have lost control of their own destiny. They volunteered....for a myriad of reasons.....from economic to pathological, as in needs a job to needs to kill people. Whatever reason brought them there, they can't effect change.

Some of these interventions may have been described as helping a repressed people such as Bosnia

Our leaders pick and choose who will get help with unfathomable logic. Thousands, no millions of Africans have been mutilated and murdered by terrorists armed with as little as machetes. Where is our righteous indignation? Hundreds of thousands of Syrians have been, and continue to be, killed by their own government as world leaders talk about it. Saddam Hussein was run to ground and hanged for weapons of mass destruction that he didn't have....We killed him because of 911. That and an opportunity to burn through armaments.

History has despots and dictators that killed millions without a whimper from the USA. Touch oil and we got a problem. Screw with our economic interests and we howl.

or stopping the advancement of communism, Korea, Vietnam.

Not that I am against crapping on communism....it's just that I wonder if we have the right to demand that other countries reject communism in favor of democracy. Wouldn't the tenants of democracy call for restraint in favor of letting other countries do as they see fit. We let Pol Pot create mountains of skulls yet we get all worked up over Russia asserting control over what used to be Russia.

That's because those Cambodian skulls weren't worth anything to us and Ukraine is.

 

[mtlogcabin]

needs to kill people

As absurd as that statement is, evil exist everywhere and I can not disagree that is a possibility that a minuscule amount may have joined for that purpose. However I bet someone with a "need" to kill people would just do it without the cover of being in the military and having to wait to be assigned to an operation that would give them the opportunity to fulfill that "need". The rest of your post I tend to agree with.

I won't comment further as I believe mjesse summed it up best in his post

I think the split in the time period presented above is the Vietnam war.Prior to that, the nation almost completely supported the military, and "Soldier" was an honor to be carried throughout your life.

After the 1960's, the esteem of the soldier was muddied by the politics of Vietnam.

Although I believe people looking back at the Korean Conflict and the fact there was no victory is actually why people started questioning why are we going to intervene in xyz country.

 

[nitramnaed]

Not a big deal considering the list but I happen to know that Raymond Burr did not serve in the Navy and was not injured as stated. That's a myth that goes back some time.