On the other side of the permit...

[Frank]

I am not for or against tamper proof receptacles. I am against emotional reasoning for code adoption. IMC 1101.10 Locking access port caps.

Refrigerant circuit access ports located outdoors shall be fitted with locking-type tamper-resistant caps or shall be otherwise secured to prevent unauthorized access.

How many enforce this portion of the code? This was an emotionally driven testimony that played on the hearts of the committee members.

The committee rejected it but the emotional testimony from parents that had lost kids to huffing swayed the assembly at final action harings and made me feel like Attilla the Hun for speaking against it in that they already are using tools to get the Freon out and could just cut lines or coils. FWIIW the one mother's 16 YO daughter fatality was introduced to huffing by her HVAC tech boyfriend--think he might be able to get her a key?

Keys are under $20 on ebay.

 

[Glenn]

10 years equates to 2,500 per year out of about 34 million children 5 and younger. Every benefit has a cost. The question is when does the benefit out weigh the cost. Should we lower the national speed limit to 30 MPH because reduced speeds save lives? Do we allow warrantless search and seizures because we may find evidence to convict a suspected criminal. I think everybody would answer no to those questions. We need to apply the same thinking to the code adoption process. All benefits come with a cost. How much and is it justified and reasonable and who really benefits should be considered.

I think this about sums up my thoughts...but in a much less "whine and cheese" kind of way.

It's not the individual cost increase...it's the sum of many. Cost must be considered. For me, if the receptacles work just fine, it will be forgotten. So far...they stink.

The codes in general are going overboard, as presented already by others. Have you seen the expectations for connecting deck ledgers in the 2012 IRC?

We are desensitizing ourselves as a culture. Give it time and folks won't teach their kids to stay clear of receptacles. What happens when they go visit grandma in her older home? Beyond code alone, I see our culture continuing to punish all for the mistakes or misfortunes of few. It hurts to say or think, I get it, but I think there needs to be some balance in that. We can't beat death.

I'm glad to see the interesting discussion...I wish I had started it a little less ranty. Doh!

 

[ICE]

The CPSP came armed with 10 years of data. In a 10 year period there were 25,000 documented cases of children 8 years of age and under who had visits to the emergency room after electric shock from putting objects in receptacles. They only counted documented emergency room visits and they only counted children 8 years of age and younger.

Those are the numbers from a small sampling of hospitals. The narrator didn't say how many hospitals took part in the study but the indication was that the number is small. Should it be 2,500 or 250,000?

The number if instances must be huge compared to the hospital visits. Why go to the hospital because you stuck a key in a receptacle?

How many die? I did it when I was three or four.....living in England. This is after all, the way children learn about electricity.

 

[cboboggs]

What about the opening restrictions on windows located more than 72 inches above the finish grade? I was there for the testimony in Overland Park in 2004. I'm sorry, but since when is the lack of parenting the job of a code official?

Codegeek, I completely agree. That is the reason that I will recommend to my governing body to remove this section and the tamper resistant receptacles from the code when we adopt it.

As a Code Official, I have always refrained from making amendments to the code when they were outside of the local design consideration, but even i realize that there comes a time when we have to stop trying to legislate poor parenting and lack of common sense.

 

[Codegeek]

Codegeek, I completely agree. That is the reason that I will recommend to my governing body to remove this section and the tamper resistant receptacles from the code when we adopt it.

I amended our local ordinance to remove the window restrictions when I was a code official. Glad to hear others felt the same way I did.

We've become such a litigious society that we have to make rules to make sure everyone can be safe from everything. That will never happen; not enough chlorine in the gene pool.

 

[ICE]

While not defending any particular code, deleting sections that are clearly about safety leaves the AHJ open to calamity. The overwhelming majority don't agree with you and that means...you lose in court.

 

[mtlogcabin]

You can't lose in court what you governing body does not legislate you to enforce.

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings,

I would not have a problem with the funtion of tamper proof outlets if they were more functional. They are better now. However, I have a 94 year old aunt that lives by herself and is still pretty much independant. But I don't see how some of these old folks can plug and unplug stuff from tamper proof outlets as it takes more strength to do so. Unplugging them can be a real pain more so than plugging them in. So, how many folks are yanking on the cord since the plugs are stiff? Could that be a problem as well? I think so.

On the other hand, I recall my little brother putting a hair pin into an outlet when he was an infant and my mom freaking out. I guess he was on the grounded side as he was not hurt.

BSSTG

 

[peach]

We kind of became a culture of protecting people from themselves by sticking silly things in the Code.. that's really what parents are for! I opposed SBCCI's requirement of hurricane shutters, not because it's not a good idea, but more because you're asking the Code official to enforce the unenforceable.. can't force someone to put them up.

Same thing with TR receptacles.. they may be there when you do your final.. they may be gone the next day. They are a pain.

Can't really fault ICC with this.. the electrical section of the IRC is written by the IAEI. You may (or may not) have noticed there are never electrical code change hearings at ICC code change hearings.

The list of things that a) insurance companies should give a big break for (ie, hurricane shutters and sprinklers) or b) a parent needs be a parent (window limiters, TR receptacles) goes on and on.. we can't enforce the ongoing maintenace of those items, and they shouldn't be in the code.

*whew*