Outdoor ice rink with roof needs sprinklers?

[Coder]

So I was reading the paper last night and a local town is considering using their outdoor ice rink for special events during the summer. This oudoor ice rink has a newly contructed steel/metal roof stucture over it. The AHJ is saying that in order for them to hold special events, the roof structure will have to be sprinklered. I am trying to wrap my head around this and figure out how this determination was made. I am skeptical as to whether or not it is an actual requirement for such a structure. Any thoughts from the forum?

 

[north star]

$ **

Let's start with some basic info.....Actual sq. footage of the structure,

...Occ. Load, ...Occ. Group, ...codes being used, etc.

** $

 

[steveray]

Assembly with a roof.......maybe depending on occ load.....100 people?

 

[Coder]

Based off my jurisdiction's same type of outdoor ice rink. Let's assume it is 27,000 sq ft with an occupant load of 3,857 (using concentrated chairs only not fixed 7 sq ft per occupant net) With the 2009 IBC, IFC, IEBC, etc. being referenced. My determination would be an A-5 or possibly A-4 occupancy classification. Realizing that there is only a roof and no walls other than the hockey boards/glass. Thanks for your willingness to ponder this with me.

 

[mtlogcabin]

No sprinklers required

All sprinkler requirements are based on the" fire area" sq ft or occupant load.

A roofed structure with no walls does not meet the definition of a fire area

2009 IBC

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or fire-resistance-rated horizontal assemblies of a building.

 

[steveray]

The floor is exempt per 903.2.1.4 (maybe)...the other trick is the definition of "fire area" which specifically talks of enclosing walls....... I know we debated this a while back with permitguy and others....I am more on the required side until someone smarter than me learns me otherwise...

WALL. A vertical element with a horizontal length-to-thickness ratio greater than three, used to enclose space.

Ohhh...and we have an interp from our State that says fire area becomes building area when no exterior walls are present...

AREA, BUILDING. The area included within surrounding exterior walls (or exterior walls and firewalls) exclusive of vent shafts and courts. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the building area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above.

 

[Gregg Harris]

No sprinklers requiredAll sprinkler requirements are based on the" fire area" sq ft or occupant load.

A roofed structure with no walls does not meet the definition of a fire area

2009 IBC

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or fire-resistance-rated horizontal assemblies of a building.

I would agree.

 

[Frank]

No sprinklers requiredAll sprinkler requirements are based on the" fire area" sq ft or occupant load.

A roofed structure with no walls does not meet the definition of a fire area

2009 IBC

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or fire-resistance-rated horizontal assemblies of a building.

Need to keep reading next sentence includes areas without walls.

"FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor next above."

A-3 or A-4 use as skating rink with a roof over it

M use as a flea market or bazaar

A-2 if used for a summer dance or octoberfest

12000 sq ft or 300 people gets you there to requiring sprinklers, less if the A-2 use is contemplated.

 

[steveray]

Frank....which version has that wording?.....My 2003 does not...(EDIT)Looks like the online 2009 does...MT did you guys amend?

Need to keep reading next sentence includes areas without walls."FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor next above."

A-3 or A-4 use as skating rink with a roof over it

M use as a flea market or bazaar

A-2 if used for a summer dance or octoberfest

12000 sq ft or 300 people gets you there to requiring sprinklers, less if the A-2 use is contemplated.

 

[mtlogcabin]

I mistakenly quoted the 2006 and identified it as 2009

Frank correctly quoted the 2009 which added "Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor next above."

 

[fireguy]

We have an account that does have 4 walls and a roof, all metal construction. The use is as a rodeo arena, dirt floor. My first inspection trip was after dark, and the only combustables I saw were the plywood the electrical panels were mounted on and the wooden sprinkler house. I could only shake my head at wondering why the building had a dry sprinkler system. My last service call was during daytime, to make a list to repair the broken sprinkler piping. Someone got in the building and opened the condensation drain. I also noted a small change in the contents of the building, hay bales stacked on the concrete. Hay bales can make an impressive fire. I do not remember how many hay fires I have been on, but I only saw 2 hay stack fires that were stopped. Both times tractors were available and they were used to cut the stack apart.

Someone in the permit process made a decision to reqire a sprinkler. Like most sprinkler systems, will probably never be used.

 

[Coder]

That last sentence of the fire area defintion pretty much sums it up. sprinkler it. But why? (and you can't say because the codes says so) It is going to have to be a pretty damn big fire before you will even see a head activate that is 25-30 ft above the floor. Also, what if it is classified as an A-5 occupancy?

 

[north star]

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Not sure of your particular layout of the rink itself, but the

outdoor rinks that I have seen DID have a boundary half-wall

around it......What about egress paths out of yours, ...toilet

facilites for the designed occ. load of 3,857.......Also, since

it will be changing occ. groups [ possibly - "A-4" to what ],

what about ADA / Accessibility issues?



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[Coder]

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Not sure of your particular layout of the rink itself, but the

outdoor rinks that I have seen DID have a boundary half-wall

around it......What about egress paths out of yours, ...toilet

facilites for the designed occ. load of 3,857.......Also, since

it will be changing occ. groups [ possibly - "A-4" to what ],

what about ADA / Accessibility issues?



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All good questions. At the outdoor rink in my jurisdiction there are two main means of ingress/egress. These are the two gates that open up in the rink boards for the zamboni/equipment/trucks to drive through. As far as that goes, all the boards could be removed if necessary and there would then be no obstructions to open space around the entire perimeter of the roof structure. Toilet facilites are avaliable on site but not to that capacity. It would only be used for special events in the warmer months, at which time, a fleet of porta potties would be made available. ADA compliance. Everything is at ground level, handicap accessible, and made of concrete. The rink in question has a giant concrete retaining wall on one of the long sides of the rink with approx 10' between it and the hockey boards to keep the avalanches out of the rink(another story all together). Otherwise, all else being equal. To be sprinklered or not is the main concern. I guess the jurisdiction could amend the last sentence of the fire area definition out and be done with it. ??

 

[north star]

= = =

"I guess the jurisdiction could amend the last sentence of the fire area definition out and be done with it. ??"

Or they can reimburse your AHJ Fire Dept. to provide fire watches

on the days of the event......Paid upfront in full of course!.....Yes,

it is about the money!.......Otherwise sprinkle it!

+ + +

 

[Coder]

This has been a good discussion. Thanks to all who replied. I too may be faced with a barrage of questions/concerns at our outdoor rink in the future and am trying to be proactive. One last thought is, shouldn't it already be sprinkled if it was built last year and to the 2009 IBC?

 

[north star]

+ + &

"One last thought is, shouldn't it already be sprinkled if it was built last year and to the 2009 IBC?"

Could have been an oversight in plans review [ if there was one ], ...maybean agreement by "the powers that be" to get the rink built in the first

place, other, blah, blah, blah........Have you asked the AHJ?

& + +

 

[Coder]

+ + &Could have been an oversight in plans review [ if there was one ], ...maybe

an agreement by "the powers that be" to get the rink built in the first

place, other, blah, blah, blah........Have you asked the AHJ?

& + +

I have been informed by my "powers that be" to not get involved. Just doing this for my own sanity(insanity) however you want to look at it. :twisted: