PA ADA Variance Process

[1849]

Only the PA Accessibility Advisory Board can determine "technical infeasibility" so you may just be stuck with their decision. If you can put 20% of the renovation costs into interior accessibility, that should suffice. Is this a historical building on a register as such?

The building is part of "stone row" a 16 structure block that is listed as a contributing resource in the national historic district.

Old Mauch Chunk Historic District - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given what I have done to the building, removing 2000 sq ft of stucco, repointing entire structure, replacing 22 windows, installing a new brick chimney, roof rafters, dormers from scratch, an obscene amount of spray foam I cannot use any 20% calculation to avoid anything. I am not trying to claim a monetary hardship, I am claiming a unique physical characteristic and especially sidewalk width as a reason I cannot meet ADA.

 

[1849]

To lower the door at the street and move the door inside more into the building and then provide a 5x5 landing and then provide a ramp and then another 5x5 landing you end up with no interior space.

Look at the picture this building is only about 12ft wide on the exterior, interior with stone exterior is lucky to be 11ft wide.
And if my memory serves me right it is probably less than 24-28 feet deep on the exterior of the main building.

My thought is raise the walkway with cross pad in front of the 2 doors and ramp down to the correct height. If the Town will let you...

The existing 8" curb on a sidewalk that is only really 42" is already a hazard, too high for a comfortable step on/off and too narrow for pedestrians passing. We see people stumble on the curb height all the time, I understand PENNDOT standard it 8" but REALLY inappropriate for location. Max commercial stair riser is 7" for a reason, sidestep is way more dangerous than front step and we would be increasing curb from 8" to 13" that is a huge liability. Also a 13" curb on a 15' wide sidewalk would be impossible to get 1/12 pitch on with a door landing from "crosswalk"

 

[mark handler]

The building is part of "stone row" a 16 structure block that is listed as a contributing resource in the national historic district.

Old Mauch Chunk Historic District - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given what I have done to the building, removing 2000 sq ft of stucco, repointing entire structure, replacing 22 windows, installing a new brick chimney, roof rafters, dormers from scratch, an obscene amount of spray foam I cannot use any 20% calculation to avoid anything. I am not trying to claim a monetary hardship, I am claiming a unique physical characteristic and especially sidewalk width as a reason I cannot meet ADA.

If you recess the door in, add lift, you can meet ADA. (you loose Sq. Ftg.)

 

[jar546]

If you recess the door in, add lift, you can meet ADA. (you loose Sq. Ftg.)

Where did I hear that before? LOL

 

[princeofpen]

? don't think I am understanding this, wouldn't you need 18" to the latch side of a pull door and the landing would have to be 44" before the ramp, ramp is still 40" long so , 84" or do you mean door would swing over a 4' sidewalk hitting pedestrians as it swung open?
You wouldn't need a pull side as the door would swing in if your occ load is less than 50. Swing the door in over a 5' level and ramp up from there to current floor level.
I can't say I've ever been involved with historic buildings but maybe heading down that route would eliminate the headaches for such a small occupancy/building as this. It doesn't appear as though, without serious city financial input, that any solution is all that viable.

 

[Paul Sweet]

The maneuvering space at an inswinging door has to extend 5 ft. from the door.

 

[Genduct]

I apologize if this was covered, I searched the archive and only found this thread. https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/technically-infeasible-and-liability.32656/ it doesn't really help with my issue.


The property is 1849 stone structure in Pennsylvania. No C/0 and used as residence, R3. Change of use on first floor to M, 2nd,3rd and 4th Floors to remain as R3. 2 hour fire separations, ADA restroom etc. Sticking point is at least one accessible entrance. Sidewalks were put in by the town with state grant money in 2000 and are 48" wide, with utilities, (gas meters, sewer vents) decreasing to 42" clear. The street is so narrow that putting in wider sidewalks would have removed all parking on street in a town where parking has been a problem since 1920s. Curb is 8", step in to first floor is 5". There is lots of foot traffic and the sidewalks are really too narrow for number of pedestrians, curb is already too high for most pedestrians stepping on/off. Building is a listed contributing resource in a national historic district, district was established 1975.


There are 5 business on this block, most have no c/o, none meet any ADA requirement, or modern fire ratings ETC.

This project is IBC 2015/IBC Chapter 11 2018


In Pennsylvania the BCO does NOT have jurisdiction over ADA variances, that is a state appeals board run by the department of labor and industry. I requested a variance from the Accessibility Advisory Board. I claimed technically infeasible, I can neither raise the sidewalk nor lower the floor level and I need to make up 5" rise in 6" run. Even that would be encroachment on the right of way, although no more than the existing utility encroachment. I had a hearing on the phone and made my case, I was immediately denied. I was told I had to put a call button in, I had no problem with that, next I was told that the shop keeper would then have to bring out a temporary ramp. I asked if that had to be ADA pitch 1:12 max. I was told it did, I explained it would be 13' long, with double handrail, and weight 200? lbs. and be in the middle of a busy street. I was told I would have to have someone stop traffic. I explained, that the shopkeeper could not setup such a thing, could not store this ramp, could not stop traffic for safety and liability reasons, I was then told I could put a steeper ramp in temporarily as it would be push assist with the call button. I asked how steep that could be. The board told me that could not advise me on that. I asked if it could be 5" rise/6" run they said no, I asked if it could be 5" rise, 12" run, they said no, I told them if I reduced the sidewalk to less than 42" I could not comply with ANSI 404.2.3.2 maneuver clearance at manual swing door. I was told to reapply, they were willing to waive the fee but it would still be at least a month.

The board sent me findings stating I had to put a call button and signage, and comply with ANSI 405.5 and 405.9 side guards and width but made no mention of 405.2, ramp grade. The BCO wants more clarification, I understand that, the BCO could have his license dinged when the state audits this site. This SEEMS to me to be the state not wanting to have liability? and the BCO unable to accept liability.

I pulled the 1849 threshold stone out such that I could push the door in to the building a bit, 18" thick stone walls, and sent a plan with two options for a second hearing with the advisory board. Option 1, 24" run 5" rise, 21% pitch Option 2 18" run 1.5" rise AND temporary 6" run 3.5" rise 56%. Both would require call button and signage, neither is ideal. Both seem like tripping hazards.

I know that was a long description, any input on other options or opinions on what to do in this situation?
thank you

Your 2 options, meant to appease the ADA requirements, sounds like a continuing hazard to the majority, everyday users who may not expect this abrupt interruption to their travel

The cure sounds worse than the disease. If your situation does not meet the definition of Technical Infeasibility, I can't think of anything that will

Sounds like the classic case of Inflicting the Code and not Applying the Code to me

 

[mark handler]

If you recess the door in, add lift, you can meet ADA. (you loose Sq. Ftg. INSIDE BUILDING)

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Chair lifts have a door or gate on them. So don't forget the Two Doors in a Series rule of 48" between doors when open and a turning space between the lift door/gate and the entrance door .

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

I apologize if this was covered, I searched the archive and only found this thread. https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/technically-infeasible-and-liability.32656/ it doesn't really help with my issue.


The property is 1849 stone structure in Pennsylvania. No C/0 and used as residence, R3. Change of use on first floor to M, 2nd,3rd and 4th Floors to remain as R3. 2 hour fire separations, ADA restroom etc. Sticking point is at least one accessible entrance. Sidewalks were put in by the town with state grant money in 2000 and are 48" wide, with utilities, (gas meters, sewer vents) decreasing to 42" clear. The street is so narrow that putting in wider sidewalks would have removed all parking on street in a town where parking has been a problem since 1920s. Curb is 8", step in to first floor is 5". There is lots of foot traffic and the sidewalks are really too narrow for number of pedestrians, curb is already too high for most pedestrians stepping on/off. Building is a listed contributing resource in a national historic district, district was established 1975.


There are 5 business on this block, most have no c/o, none meet any ADA requirement, or modern fire ratings ETC.

This project is IBC 2015/IBC Chapter 11 2018


In Pennsylvania the BCO does NOT have jurisdiction over ADA variances, that is a state appeals board run by the department of labor and industry. I requested a variance from the Accessibility Advisory Board. I claimed technically infeasible, I can neither raise the sidewalk nor lower the floor level and I need to make up 5" rise in 6" run. Even that would be encroachment on the right of way, although no more than the existing utility encroachment. I had a hearing on the phone and made my case, I was immediately denied. I was told I had to put a call button in, I had no problem with that, next I was told that the shop keeper would then have to bring out a temporary ramp. I asked if that had to be ADA pitch 1:12 max. I was told it did, I explained it would be 13' long, with double handrail, and weight 200? lbs. and be in the middle of a busy street. I was told I would have to have someone stop traffic. I explained, that the shopkeeper could not setup such a thing, could not store this ramp, could not stop traffic for safety and liability reasons, I was then told I could put a steeper ramp in temporarily as it would be push assist with the call button. I asked how steep that could be. The board told me that could not advise me on that. I asked if it could be 5" rise/6" run they said no, I asked if it could be 5" rise, 12" run, they said no, I told them if I reduced the sidewalk to less than 42" I could not comply with ANSI 404.2.3.2 maneuver clearance at manual swing door. I was told to reapply, they were willing to waive the fee but it would still be at least a month.

The board sent me findings stating I had to put a call button and signage, and comply with ANSI 405.5 and 405.9 side guards and width but made no mention of 405.2, ramp grade. The BCO wants more clarification, I understand that, the BCO could have his license dinged when the state audits this site. This SEEMS to me to be the state not wanting to have liability? and the BCO unable to accept liability.

I pulled the 1849 threshold stone out such that I could push the door in to the building a bit, 18" thick stone walls, and sent a plan with two options for a second hearing with the advisory board. Option 1, 24" run 5" rise, 21% pitch Option 2 18" run 1.5" rise AND temporary 6" run 3.5" rise 56%. Both would require call button and signage, neither is ideal. Both seem like tripping hazards.

I know that was a long description, any input on other options or opinions on what to do in this situation?
thank you

Here is a suggestion that I have done successfully in the past to meet ADA.

1. inset the door a couple feet?
2. reverse the swing of the door to swing out?
3. run a short ramp inside from the face of the inset door floor?
4. in setting the door will give you a landing at the bottom, and outswing door clearance from the walkway . You will need a landing at the top too.
4. to prevent tripping hazard for the inside folks have wood rails on the exposed side of the interior ramp.
5. it is hard to tell where the finished floor is beyond the door. Looks like 6 inches above the sidewalk?

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

The building is part of "stone row" a 16 structure block that is listed as a contributing resource in the national historic district.

Old Mauch Chunk Historic District - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given what I have done to the building, removing 2000 sq ft of stucco, repointing entire structure, replacing 22 windows, installing a new brick chimney, roof rafters, dormers from scratch, an obscene amount of spray foam I cannot use any 20% calculation to avoid anything. I am not trying to claim a monetary hardship, I am claiming a unique physical characteristic and especially sidewalk width as a reason I cannot meet ADA.

There are ADA exceptions for Historic Preservation. You would need to show proof it is sanctioned by the local authority or on the national historic register.