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Pa hb 377

rshuey,

I must admit that you have me somewhat confused. In previous posts, #5,15 & 17, it was my impression that you were a RFS supporter. Now after post #67, which is clearly critical of repealing RFS in Pennsylvania, you seem to not have an opinion or position on the issue. Incognito may be blunt, even abrasive to some, but at least you do not have to guess about his position on the issue.

beach,

#73. Really. Starting personal attacks seems a bit unprofessional.
 
Min&Max,

I completely agree with your assessment as to my being "unprofessional", would you also consider these comments unprofessional?:

“My new found confidence in the fire service overwhelming---not!! They are either idiots or ---not quite honest.”

“What would make anyone think that a lazy, clock-watching union worker is better than a non-union worker.”

“Forensics you are truly pathetic.

“We certainly ran across a few egomanics such as yourself…….”

“Oh and please keep up your asinine ranting and ridiculous examples of cost,etc. along with the rest of the fire boys. You made winning easy and there is nothing better than winning.

“Sorry beach but I am not interested in the Charlie Sheen mess and the media from the land-of-the-out-of-touch(California)”

“rshuey---It would appear you are in need of an old fashioned remedy. I understand crow goes well with foot-in-mouth disease”

“From what I understand the fire guy from Tennessee, Shane Ray I believe, is basically advocating that firefighters are idiots for entering any building that is on fire when they know that no one is... “
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I can go on.

Sometimes you need to lower yourself to the same level to be understood........
 
beach,

I am not sure that cherry picking previous comments out of old threads is entirely fair. Were the comments you quoted in response to others statements or unprovoked rants? Having been to a Fire Team USA seminar in which Fire Marshall Shane Ray spoke I can confirm that he was very critical of firemen entering buildings which were on fire and unoccupied. I do not recall his exact words but terms such as crazy, stupid and idiotic were certainly applicable. While I enjoy watching the "active" debate and banter I do not believe your comment in post #73 was necessary. Just my opinion. I will now shut up and continue lurking.
 
Min&Max said:
rshuey,I must admit that you have me somewhat confused. In previous posts, #5,15 & 17, it was my impression that you were a RFS supporter. Now after post #67, which is clearly critical of repealing RFS in Pennsylvania, you seem to not have an opinion or position on the issue. Incognito may be blunt, even abrasive to some, but at least you do not have to guess about his position on the issue.
Click to expand...
Those were just impartial statements actually. The only crazy part was the amount of money tax payers put out to train people to inspect the systems and learn the code. The state charges 4.00 per permit for education. Seems like a crazy waste waste of taxpayers money. If you actually knew my position, it would be scary. I prod both sides to learn more about the subject. Just cause someone rattles your cage doesn't mean you have to bark.
 
Is the $4.00 surcharge on every permit--electrical, plumbing, mechanical and building? Does the $4.00 cover education for RFS only or does it apply to all continuing education needs? Doubt your position on RFS would be scary. You are either for or against. Even those that are against are not opposed to letting homeowners have them installed if they choose.
 
I'm not big on requiring them. Although I have to play like I was ****ed at work.(politics)

I prefer to allow the homeowner to choose, so I am happy. The 4.00 is collected on all permits and was used last year to help put on education expos and classes. Of course, 90% of those classes were for RFS.

I guess to sum it up, I dislike when campaign contributions play a role in public safety. Happens all the time though.
 
beach--well surfer boy, it is quite easy to cite statements out of context of a thread as a whole and cast someone in a poor light. Easy, but juvenile at best. I have an idea, how about you show up at the ABM in Phoenix and I will introduce you to all 5'2" of me and my itty bitty hands. Should be an interesting conversation. Shoot I will even buy the first beer.
 
incognito: I will try to be @ ABM and would be glad to meet! Sprinklers are going to be around and I am sure they will produce a great deal of debate as time goes forward.

rshuey: The $4.00 is to be use for all education of inspectors. I haven't seen a breakdown on how the money is spent. For most class we still need to pay the same amount.

So how does this really work?
 
Man RJJ I wish I knew. The classes PSATS hold are supposedly reduced cost??

I know that the figure was appx 750,000 permits were issued last year. That's a crapload of money unaccounted for.
 
Unfortunately, HB377 reverted wall bracing back to the 2006 IRC. Great!! The builders are so stupid that they actually screwed themselves. There are things that you can do in the 2009 that you cannot do in the 2006 without going to an RDP. There are more methods to choose from in 2009 and it is well explained and written out. Although there are some minor issues that had to be clarified, they were addressed in the 2012 IRC. All that the builders saw was that wall bracing went from 6 pages to 28 so rather than educate themselves, they decided to throw money at the legislators and lobbyists to get the code reverted.

If they would put 1/2 the money they do in trying to change the code towards educating themselves, they might actually get to know what they are doing.

The problem with wall bracing in the past is that it was never properly enforced by the code officials so the builders continued to do whatever they wanted until there was some education for everyone in the 2009 IRC wall bracing. If the code officials would actually enforce the 2006 wall bracing methods properly from the beginning, the builders probably would not have fought to get it reverted. They are in for a wake-up call.
 
It sure is! And the class fee has not come down! So how much being sucked up by the state? The only free class I had in the last two years was put on by two local engineers on wall bracing. A real nice jester and really well presented.
 
Jeff: The Home builders miss the requirement for Arc fault! DA! that costs more the wall bracing. You are right its is the amount of pages. Not the 150.00 it takes to comply.
 
the best classes I have taken were the Fire inspector classes that were down at Bucks Co Community College, and a few classes i attended at Penn State, both were not cheap!
 
news flash for PA

The governor signed the bill.

No sprinklers needed if floors are protected underneath with 1/2" drywall or 5/8 wood panels.

not to apply to:

1. a floor over a area that is sprinklered

2. a floor over a crawl space not intended for storage or fuel-fired appliances

3. a floor with an unprotected area less than 80 sq. ft.

4. a wood floor assembly using dimension lumber or structural composite lumber equal to or greater than 2" by 10" nominal dimension or a floor assembly demonstrating equivalent fire performance. (sounds like wood I-beams, floor trusses and floor joists smaller than 2X10must be protected)

The bill also gets rid of the "09 wall bracing requirements and sends you back to the '06 requirements.

The bill also gives a break for log walls if the heating equipment meets or exceeds a list of requirements.
 
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