Paint Store Use Group Question

[liarchitect]

what use group would the back storage area of a paint store fall under? i believe it would be a s-2

any input would be appreciated

 

[cda]

Would have to look at what they are storing

How much

Class

Square footage

 

[liarchitect]

storing paint

building is class IIB fully sprinklered

corporate defines it as a staging area and it is approx. 2100 sf

 

[mark handler]

storing paintbuilding is class IIB fully sprinklered

corporate defines it as a staging area and it is approx. 2100 sf

What Kind of paint?

Latex? oil? Lacquer?

Fire/hazardous class of product?

How much of each?

How does it fall within the TABLE 307.1(1) MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE QUANTITY PER CONTROL AREA OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS

liarchitect you may need to get a professional involved

 

[cda]

What Kind of paint? Latex? oil? Lacquer?

Fire/hazardous class of product?

How much of each?

How does it fall within the TABLE 307.1(1) MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE QUANTITY PER CONTROL AREA OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS

liarchitect you may need to get a professional involved

Sorry that is what I meant by Class

 

[cda]

Look at

3404.3.4.2 Occupancy quantity limits. The following limits for quantities of stored flammable or combustible liquids shall not be exceeded:

That is 2009

 

[cda]

If they have paint they normally have the nasty stuff acetone, paint remover, mek

 

[mark handler]

Sorry that is what I meant by Class

I Knew that

 

[steveray]

Ohhhh...Come on.......they would obviously stack the intumescent paint around the xylene and acetone.....

But seriously......Mark and cda have it...You have to know exactly what and how much is being stored to determine the use group...

 

[mark handler]

It will take a lot of intumescent paint

 

[rleibowitz]

If its accessary to the paint store, use group M, why wouldn't the storage be in the same use group?

 

[mark handler]

If its accessary to the paint store, use group M, why wouldn't the storage be in the same use group?

Quantities....

High Pile storage....

 

[steveray]

If its accessary to the paint store, use group M, why wouldn't the storage be in the same use group?

Might be...less than 10%? Not an H?

 

[Oldfieldguy]

Group M provided the don't exceed the IFC Chapter 34 MAQ for Class IB, IC, II, and III liquids, the meet the storage conditions and container construction requirements, and the storage / display heights don't exceed the code-prescribed. If the building is not sprinklered the limit is 1,600 gallons. If it is sprinklered with an OH-2 design, the MAQ increases to 7,500 gallons over a 50K square foot area.

OFG a.k.a. HMPB

 

[Architect1281]

In quantities not approaching H by container size it is all M - Mercantile 309.1 .."for the display and sale of merchandise and

involves stocks of goods..."

 

[GCtony]

In quantities not approaching H by container size it is all M - Mercantile 309.1 .."for the display and sale of merchandise andinvolves stocks of goods..."

Just did a Sherwin Williams paint store and the use was M but the AHJ asked that we provide a list of goods and estimated quantities when we submitted the permit application. SW corp. was ready for it and had it to me in a few hours.

 

[mark handler]

Just did a Sherwin Williams paint store and the use was M but the AHJ asked that we provide a list of goods and estimated quantities when we submitted the permit application. SW corp. was ready for it and had it to me in a few hours.

Sherwin Williams paint store...SW was ready for it

 

[steveray]

Maybe they have learned from their mistakes......as all of us should....

 

[globe trekker]

Maybe they have learned from their mistakes......as all of us should....

Unfortunately, history says that we will not!

.

 

[cda]

They still have some quantities of the nasty stuff

Cause of that fire not stated

 

[lunatick]

I would start off by saying M until such time as the product they are selling pushes it otherwise.

Are we talking art supplies or building supplies?

To put things into perspective here.

Building side, with the push towards low VOC's low pollutants, etc. There isn't that much oil based product for sale anymore.

Latex is predominately sold. Yes there is still some Oil based, stains, laquers and thinners.

But there is also current tendency not to over stock the store and rely on in demand stocking of shelves.

Therefore, from whatever angle one goes at this. It should not be the issue your going for.

BTW what decade is the paint store fire from?

Unless the code has dramatically changed. Ask yourself. how does an M use like Lowes/Home Depot/Walmart achieve the same as a Sherwin Williams store.

 

[mark handler]

Latex is predominately sold.

FLAMMABILITY CLASSIFICATION: OSHA - N/A

DOT - N/A

FLASH POINT: None

EXTINGUISHING MEDIA: Not Applicable

UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS: Closed containers may

build up pressure or explode when exposed to extreme heat.

SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES: None

 

[Oldfieldguy]

Don't be bashing Sherwin-Williams. They spent over $500K in fire testing in the legacy Uniform Fire Code era providing substantiated fire tests that were the basis for the Group M occupancy fire protection requirements in the IFC.

Actually, let me rephrase my response: it's inappropriate to resurrect old fire photos and apply it to a corporation who has very responsible fire protection practices.

 

[jar546]

This is where I ask the RDP for more specific information so that size of area in relation to the main area, type and quantity of storage, so we can determine if the the use group is appropriate. That is what it takes as a minimum to decide what classification is appropriate.

The next that happens is the response is "we just designed and built 3 of these in other areas and they did not need all of that information"

yeah