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panel in cloths closet

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,114
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
House was built at local tech school and moved to a new site. Permit only for foundation, steps, and service since it is an existing house. New service goes to a existing panel in a 24"x24" cloths closet. We are debating if we can fail existing panel in the closet.
 
2006 IRC

E3305.4 Location of working spaces and equipment.

Required working space shall not be designated for storage. Panelboards and overcurrent protection devices shall not be located in clothes closets or bathrooms.

mj
 
Working clearance? I think they could get around the storage thing with a sign...don't like it...but could.....working clearance is assumedly NG though...
 
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Rick18071,

Was the house constructed at the local tech school, issued a C. of O.?

If not, then it is not a legally recognized SFD. It would need to be inspected &

approved to the standards under which it was constructed, and approved by

the AHJ in which it is installed.

If that AHJ determines it is a Property Maintenance issue, then Section 604.3

[ might ] apply.....From the 2006 IPMC,....Section 604.3 - "Electrical system hazards.

Where it is found that the electrical system in a structure constitutes a hazard

to the occupants or the structure by reason of inadequate service, improper

fusing, insufficient receptacle and lighting outlets, improper wiring or installation,

deterioration or damage, or for similar reasons, the code official shall require

the defects to be corrected to eliminate the hazard."

It sounds as though they need to move the panel.

Also, I do not believe that signage would satisfy the intent or the letter for the

safety of the occupants.....That would also let the Tech school off the hook!

& & & &
 
It appears the clearance issue is the only thing one should object to. 24"x24" seems a bit small for a clothes closet. Perhaps a utility closet for brooms and such is a better description.

How big is the door?
 
Wouldn't be considered existing in my neck of the woods...probably wouldn't approve the service until the panel gets moved.
 
If the panel is centered with and facing the door opening and there are no shelves or rods it is legal I do believe.
 
fiddler,

How would you get the 30 inch wide clearance in a 24 inch wide closet?
 
PG.....

How do you or the building code, define a bedroom? If it says study on the plans, is it a bedroom? If it says electrical room on the plans, is it a closet? I am not saying I like it, and I certainly don't encourage it, but if it had the working clearance, I think I would have to approve it....
 
I don't think the house had any kind of inspection before it was moved. Most houses do not have C.O.'s in PA since we only started to have codes in 2004. So if a house is being moved we only gave a permit and did inspections for the foundation and anything else being done but not for the house itself. I don't know when this house was built at the tech school. The permit was issued 3 years ago by someone that doesn't work here anymore and I only been here for 6 months.
 
$ $ $ $

Rick18071,

Thanks for the update of info!.....Will your dept. be issuing a C. of O. for

this house?

If the location of the existing panelboard is a true closet, ...I am assuming that

your AHJ will want it to be moved to a compliant location.......One possibility for

this might be,....remove everything from the elec. panelboard in its existing location.

Install a very large junction box and make compliant connections with the existing

conductors and run new conductors to a new, compliant location.....Leave the cover

to the very large junction box accessible and you should be good to go......A 2nd

option would be to remove some of the framed element to be able to comply

Article 110.26.

$ $ $ $
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The phrase "such as in clothes closets" was added to Section 240.24(d) in the 1981 Edition of the NEC. Prior to that it was permissible to have overcurrent protection located in clothes closets as long as it was not in "the vicinity of easily ignitable material". So basically it was up to the inspector to determine if the location was acceptable or not.

The 1940 Edition of the NEC Article 110 Section 1111 Working Space About Electrical Equipment" states in part "the horizontal dimensions of the working space in front of live parts ...shall not be less than: (3) For parts of 150 volts or less to ground on one side of the working space and no bare live or grounded parts on the other side of the working space, 1 1/2 feet"

I am not sure when this requirement was increased to the current 30" width for working space. But it would seem, depending on the age of the dwelling being moved, this may have been a perfectly acceptable installation.

As to whether or not the moving of the building would require the relocation of the panel or not that is another question. If they are replacing the panel then I would say that it would have to be located in a current code conforming location. If they are only reattaching the service drop to an existing installation, I'm afraid you may have to live with it.
 
How do you or the building code, define a bedroom? If it says study on the plans, is it a bedroom? If it says electrical room on the plans, is it a closet? I am not saying I like it, and I certainly don't encourage it, but if it had the working clearance, I think I would have to approve it....
Click to expand...
First, I go by what the plans say. Then, I apply common sense based on years of experience with thousands upon thousands of homes and the knowledge that the average American moves every 7 years. I stand my ground until someone with more authority tells me I'm wrong (doesn't happen often), then I sleep well at night knowing I did everything I could. It's simple, really.
 
I wish we had that kind of support from above here.......we document as well as we can and if it is in writing, that is all we are allowed to do...we can't regulate what someone might do...
 
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