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panel in cloths closet

We will not be issuing a c.o. for the whole house, only the basement. We will approve this service if they install a disconnect outside or in the basement. The panel in the closet is to far from the meter anyway. I just hope all the student electricians from this tech school won't be doing this.
 
So they can only occupy the basement?

What would a disconnect outside have to do with the fact that they have overcurrent protection devices installed in a clothes closet?
 
permitguy said:
So they can only occupy the basement?What would a disconnect outside have to do with the fact that they have overcurrent protection devices installed in a clothes closet?
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They probably ran 20' of 3 wire inside the building with no protection......to the "existing" panel.....
 
Not inspecting existing house. Permit only for basement, elec. service, and outside steps. Existing house that was moved might have been built before we had codes here and if they are not doing anything in the existing house I can not make them get a permit for doing nothing or an inspection. If I could I would have to make them tear off the drywall to inspect. I have done service inspections on mobile homes that were moved that have panels in closets. I don't make them move the panel, would you?
 
^ ^ ^ ^

Rick18071,

The C. of O. applies to the whole house, not just the basement,

elec. service & steps.

Yes, I would lobby for moving the electrical panel out of the closet,

or make the location where it is currently located "NOT" a closet!

Access to the ocpd's is as important as the combustibles located

near the panel too, ...IMO!

The AHJ Fire Authority could cite Section 102.1 [ from the `06 IFC ]:

102.1 Construction and design provisions.

The construction and design provisions of this code shall apply to:

1. Structures, facilities and conditions arising after the adoption of

this code.

2. Existing structures, facilities and conditions not legally in

existence at the time of adoption of this code.

3. Existing structures, facilities and conditions when identified in

specific sections of this code.

4. Existing structures, facilities and conditions which, in the opinion

of the fire code official, constitute a distinct hazard to life or

property.

^ ^ ^ ^
 
Here, moved structures have to meet code....prefabs or mobile homes have their own 3rd party certifications...we do inspect the foundations and connections per manuf. specs...
 
Existing house that was moved might have been built before we had codes here and if they are not doing anything in the existing house I can not make them get a permit for doing nothing or an inspection.
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They aren't doing "nothing." They are moving a house into your jurisdiction, where a building code is in effect. This isn't a manufactured home which was subjected to quality control inspections in a factory. Not only can you require a permit and inspections, but it is your responsibility to do so. Of the "feasances," nonfeasance is the worst.

If I could I would have to make them tear off the drywall to inspect.
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You have to do what a reasonable and prudent person with your level of training and expertise would do. Inspect everything you can see, and require removal of drywall in certain places to inspect what you normally would have. That will allow you to reasonably gauge the overall compliance of the work. If it looks bad, then they uncover everything. Sometimes this job requires us to do things we wish it didn't.
 
2X4 walls will not pass insulation requirements. I won't sign off on things I can't see. Like for a 2nd floor addition I only C. O. the 2nd floor addition, not the whole house.
 
Insulation? Seriously?

I'm not saying that the entire place has to be in accordance with the latest and greatest, but it's your responsiblity to ensure it is safe to the extent that is practical. Failure to do so puts you (personally) and your jurisdiction at risk. Based on your current logic, it would be perfectly acceptable for a builder to construct homes on a flatbed semi just outside your boundary, then move them in and place them with no oversight except the foundation and the utilities.

A 2nd floor addition isn't a like comparison. The first floor should have already been inspected and approved. Regardless, you should have an engineer's report regarding the ability of the existing structure to support the addition.
 
"Regardless, you should have an engineer's report regarding the ability of the existing structure to support the addition."

Engineers report?.....for a SFD?.....I wish.....unless there is some creative framing, everything we need to verify the structure is already in the IRC...

3408.1 Conformance.

Structures moved into or within the jurisdiction shall comply with the provisions of this code for new structures.

Good luck with the IECC on that one!
 
Engineers report?.....for a SFD?.....I wish.....unless there is some creative framing, everything we need to verify the structure is already in the IRC...
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I fear we're taking this thread way off-topic, but if you have the staff to hand-hold a typical homeowner through the necessary steps to design a second floor addition on an existing single story residence, you're better off than most departments. I can't remember the last time I saw a home without at least one engineered component.

3408.1 Conformance. Structures moved into or within the jurisdiction shall comply with the provisions of this code for new structures.
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Wrong code for this example.
 
permitguy said:
I fear we're taking this thread way off-topic, but if you have the staff to hand-hold a typical homeowner through the necessary steps to design a second floor addition on an existing single story residence, you're better off than most departments. I can't remember the last time I saw a home without at least one engineered component.Wrong code for this example.
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R101.2 Scope.

The provisions of the International Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, removal and demolition of detached one- and two-family dwellings and multiple single-family dwellings (townhouses) not more than three stories in height with a separate means of egress and their accessory structures.

Exception: Existing buildings undergoing repair, alteration or additions, and change of occupancy shall be permitted to comply with the International Existing Building Code.

We have a choice between Chapter 34 or the IEBC
 
Where do you see IBC Chapter 34 in that equation?

Verifying compliance of the moved structure to the extent technically feasible within the IRC would be a much more appropriate course of action then doing nothing, which is what is being proposed. If you wanted to take a hard line and disallow moved structures that don't comply with energy regulations, I suppose you could. It seems a bit overboard to me.
 
Here in CT the applicant has a choice between IBC 34 or IEBC .....34 says treat it like new....ALL of it....we don't get to pick and coose what code sections want to enforce...

Fin...
 
You have to do what a reasonable and prudent person with your level of training and expertise would do. Inspect everything you can see, and require removal of drywall in certain places to inspect what you normally would have. That will allow you to reasonably gauge the overall compliance of the work. If it looks bad, then they uncover everything.
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From the above statement, I guess I'd replace "drywall" with "plaster and lath." Other than that, it would be the same. You'd probably find that a 120 year-old house that's still worth moving was built with much more care than anything built today. If you see something you're uncomfortable with (2x4 rafters 24" O.C.), you could require an engineer's evaluation for the permit file or have them add a purlin and struts (for example).

Document, document, document. If you act in good faith, have documented, and can justify your position, you'll be fine. If you do nothing and something goes wrong, those harmed may own your house.
 
From Appendix "J", `06 IRC - Existing Buildings and Structures:

SECTION AJ102 COMPLIANCE - AJ102.1 General.

"Regardless of the category of work being performed, the work shall

not cause the structure to become unsafe or adversely affect the

performance of the building; shall not cause an existing mechanical or

plumbing system to become unsafe, hazardous, insanitary or overloaded;

and unless expressly permitted by these provisions, shall not make the

building any less conforming to this code or to any previously approved

alternative arrangements than it was before the work was undertaken."

Hope this helps!

.
 
Most don't, but I'm sure there is a similar replacement with regards to the scope and intent of the code and the duties of building officials.
 
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